The Star Trek Mod - v1.9.7.5 (Oct 07)

[XenoTheMorph]

Atrocities said:

The problem with frequent patches are getting the updates to all those who have the mod and getting the updates uploaded to PBW. I hate to bother the PBW admins every few weeks.

I agree that updates are on going, and a nessassary evil.

I am just asking if we need another update so soon, or should I wait and gather more reports so that the next patch has as many fixes in it as possible?

I think that the best thing to do is only patch if at least a month has past since the Last time OR The patch is mainly to fix a annoying/major bug OR the patch would significantly improve the mod experience OR everybody says 'Give us a patch!!'

Do you think the Mount issue (the only even vaguely significant bug) is important enough for a patch? I don't think so myself. (unless you have solved the supply issue )

(But from my own view point gimme! gimme! gimme! )

[solops]

Since I don't play PBW, I like updates frequently, provided they fix problems and don't just improve cosmetics.

[Atrocities]

solops said:
Since I don't play PBW, I like updates frequently, provided they fix problems and don't just improve cosmetics.

I fixed the cosmetics of the mod as well as improving game play, game balance, and offering more features. I really tried hard to give the mod a true star trek feel.

I honestly do not think you will find a 4x game that lends itself to the look and feel of a star trek game more so than this mod other than say BOTF.

This is just testimate to the wonders of SEIV and we are very lucky that Aaron set up SEIV to be so moddable. I do not think that SEV will be as easilly moddable as SEIV and the ships sets we now have for SEIV we will not have for SE V. (SEV uses 3d x format ship models like in SF. How many new ships did we see for SF? Not many. In fact virtually none.)

So game play might be emulated, but I sincerely doubt that ships will be. Well not in the great numbers they have been for SE IV and this mod.

[Fyron]

I do not think that SEV will be as easilly moddable as SEIV

I can see no reason to imagine that this will be the case... From everything Malfador has said so far about SEV, it will be even more moddable than SEIV. All that remains is an actual scripting system for really powerful modding capabilities...

Atrocities said:
(SEV uses 3d x format ship models like in SF. How many new ships did we see for SF? Not many. In fact virtually none.)

That is because Starfury has such a small player base (at least Online...) more than anything.

So game play might be emulated, but I sincerely doubt that ships will be. Well not in the great numbers they have been for SE IV and this mod.

Don't be so melodramatic... Making ships for SF and SEV will just require not using Doga. No big deal, really... a few dozen hours of practice and everyone will be ready to go. Hell, a large majority of sets out there were made in non-Doga modelers, with actual 3d models (not legos strung together, but regular 3d models)... Most shipset authors will not require any adjustment.

[Atrocities]

I can see no reason to imagine that this will be the case... From everything Malfador has said so far about SEV, it will be even more moddable than SEIV. All that remains is an actual scripting system for really powerful modding capabilities...

Good point, but I was refering to the fact that, like Star Fury, it will require a lot more time and effort to mod.

That is because Starfury has such a small player base (at least Online...) more than anything.

I cannot dispute this, and in fact I agree, but never the less there are, were, very few ships made for this game. The combined problem of first rendering a low polly count ship, then sizing it correctly for use, not to mention the texturing issues made modeling for SF, and in kind SE V, far more difficult. In response I sincerely doubt we will see the numbers of ship sets that SEIV has seen.

Don't be so melodramatic... Making ships for SF and SEV will just require not using Doga. No big deal, really... a few dozen hours of practice and everyone will be ready to go. Hell, a large majority of sets out there were made in non-Doga modelers, with actual 3d models (not legos strung together, but regular 3d models)... Most shipset authors will not require any adjustment.

Although I do tend to be melodramatic, I feel that I am not being so here. The issue is not DOGA, it is with the complexity that a 3d graphic engine, such as the one in SF, generates. Generating a 3d image then making it into a BMP is simple. But generating a 3d image, then mapping textures to it, while keeping the size correct and the polly count down will prove to be more difficult than most people, inclduing myself, are currently capable of doing. There is simply a lot more to the task now than before. A lot more.

[Atrocities]

And for the record, all 3d programs are lego programs. DOGA simply has already made a lot of the "standard" objects used in a 3d environment. DOGA is a great tool but has two major failings, one it does not render rounded edge well, and two it has a very high polygon count for its models.

DOGA is anything is an expediant tool. Sure it lacks the power that say 3dmax or maya might have, but it is simple enough to use, and has been used to produce some stunning images and ship sets.

No matter what program you use to render new ship images for SE V, you will have two large obsticales to over come. 1. The texturing issue. Since you will not be able to use great detail in your ship models, the reason for which is to keep the polygon count down, you will have to rely upon texturing and texture mapping. A good example of this is the models used for such games as BOTF. The ship is just a wire frame with a Texture mapped to it.

The second large issue will be a combination of sizing and polloygon counts. The larger the image the higher the count.

So to have huge fleets in SE V battling it out, the ship models will most likely have to be very small. The more you have the slower the combat will run.

This is just simple physics, and problems that many games have ran into from Rebellion through Homeworld.

[Nodachi]

What software is Malfador using for the shipsets in SEV? If we can find this out then maybe we could duplicate (and then modify) the model creation workflow.

[Atrocities]

Most likely 3d max.

[Fyron]

Atrocities said:
Good point, but I was refering to the fact that, like Star Fury, it will require a lot more time and effort to mod.

Why? Component families will be createable with a single entry and some clever formulas. Other files will be similar. I don't forsee most of the files being much different from SE4. It is unlikely that ships will have anywhere near the detail that SE4 ships do. They will probably be the same... The level of complexity of the data files for SE5 will be nowhere near those in SF, since most of the files SF needed are not applicable to a strategy game...

[Nodachi]

The big thing is to find out how models are being exported to the x format.

Also, once we know how it's being done we can "borrow" custom ships from other games until we can figure out how to make them ourselves.