MP: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, should be good now. May want to save a copy of the old .2h/turn file just in case something is quirky.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by melnorjr

I have gotten that error when working on mods before, when there is an invalid command or incompatible mods. Could it possibly be the result of someone having a mod turned on when they did their turn?

Or a mod turned off/like CBM though they might get an error on hitting the end turn button, never tried it though. It is still possible that if it was caused by a single person's .2h file, that person may have an issue with their current turn. We will see.

[atul]

Well I can't look at the turn yet, but since my gem count went up and Caelum's down I'd hazard that Operation Steal Crown Jewels was a succesful one. So can't complain.

[iainuki]

Just to check, we want to use the turn 24 files because it went through ok on the second attempt?

[atul]

Well turn 24 is what llamaserver is using. So lets use that.

[Ironhawk]

Originally Posted by LumenPlacidum

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to seeing some end-game tactics. First game didn't get into the mid-game. Second game only just got to the mid-game when we realized we were being crushed... but being crushed in ways I feel I already understood. I want to be blown out of my seat wondering how so many terrors could possibly, POSSIBLY have shown up at exactly the wrong moment. I want to be beaten in a way that will make me scratch my head and really think about what happened and how to counter it.

This is a silly thing to say, Lumen. If you *really* understood how we mauled you so badly in the 2nd game, then you should have been able to prepare for and defend against it. Effectively, we did exactly what you describe above in the 2nd game. There are no magical cheats that allow you to drop a billion tartarians on your enemies straight from the underworld. Just good planning and good play.

[melnorjr]

I'm not sure that that is necessarily true, Ironhawk. I could be fighting down in my little corner of the world, then get SC's dropped on my head with cloud trapeze or simple flying from somewhere I can't see, and them just smash my entire nation. Marignon basically did this to me this game, though not with enough vigor to kill me, just mess me up a bit, because I had no available counters.
I was busy getting counters ready for other things that I was fighting at the time, and his SC dropped on my head. This doesn't mean that I don't understand the tactic - I knew he would eventually be putting out angel SCs, but I was too busy fighting other things to be able to counter that too. What lumen wants is to be beaten by things he doesn't already understand. Being a noob, I hadn't encountered the skinshifter tactic atul is using. By itself it's not going to beat me, but it was something new. Other than that, I havn't fought (or heard of being used) anything I don't already understand and know.

[Raiel]

Part of the problem here is that there is no good definition of Noob or Vet; I don't think there can be in a game like this.

For my part, I am very comfortable with game mechanics and strategy/tactics right up to late game, where SP just can't prepare you for the SC/tactics/things I've read about in this forum. I probably fare better than most noobs in early/mid-game because I've never really used gems in battles, SC, or thugs in my SP victories against all-impossible AIs. But I still consider myself a noob because I just haven't ever felt the sting of defeat or thrill of victory from MP play.

I will now admit that I considered throwing in the towel out of frustration when Lingchih obliterated my first army. I was so demoralized by what I felt was just bad luck but was really a combination of good luck and excellent strategy on Lingchih's part. Then Baalz posted his shiny new pledge thread and I just had to keep going! (Not really, I had decided before that, but it was so close.)

So far I've learned two incredibly significant lessons among many smaller... the first should be eveident from the above paragraph and the fact that I did finally (barely) put the immovable slab in front of Ermor's tomb. The second is one that every player that faces me from now on will learn the hard way. I'm not telling.

The point is this: if you read these forums avidly, a noob may not see anything that is completely new to him/her, but I still expect to see applications of force that are new to me and the rest of the noob team.

[Ironhawk]

Originally Posted by melnorjr

Other than that, I havn't fought (or heard of being used) anything I don't already understand and know.

But you see, this was my point. There is nothing available to the vets that the noobs havent seen or heard of. What elevates one player from another is just good planning and good play. You might be surprised by a particular trick now and then but if thats what you are expecting to get out of these games I think you have the wrong idea.

[melnorjr]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

But you see, this was my point. There is nothing available to the vets that the noobs havent seen or heard of. What elevates one player from another is just good planning and good play. You might be surprised by a particular trick now and then but if thats what you are expecting to get out of these games I think you have the wrong idea.

Thats possibly true. I might well. Admittedly seeing things in application can be a big factor in itself, but personally, I have barely touched on reading forum threads. I've read one or two guides, no battle reports, probably a grand total of 6 or 7 threads, and this is my first MP game, nor have I played really extensively in SP. I'm pretty green, but I have a pretty solid grasp of the concepts and the mechanics - particularly the mechanics, since I've played with modding and attempting to balance mods enough that I have had to.

I'm hoping to encounter things I hadn't considered, to learn more options for my own play. I'm a strange type. Ever profiled yourself on your gamer-type? there's social gamers, achievers(many in this game are probably here), killers, etc.

I'm an explorer. To me the fun in a game is doing something I haven't done yet. Going somewhere I haven't been. I deliberately play games without looking at guides, or (in the case of dungeons in WoW or some such) fight bosses and things without already knowing how to beat them, because the most fun part is figuring it out. The fun for me is not in the having won, its in the winning. When I have learned the be all end all I-win-button in a game, I use it once, and quit playing.

From what I hear and from what I've seen however, there is no such button here.

From what I've seen however, and no negativity intended, is that what seems to define a vet is not ingenuity, or cleverness, but experience. That's a bit of a tautology of course, but what I mean to say is that among the things that define a vet are simply knowing the probably course of action of a person in a given situation, knowing tricky little mechanics that noobs don't know yet, and simply knowing how troops tend to match up - noobs tend to go overkill when attacking something, or underestimate and not fight hard enough. The vet has seen enough battles to know the right amount of force needed to do each action.

And again, no insult intended, but I haven't run into somebody beating me with what appears to be a superior cleverness or ingenuity, but generally with experience, luck, or situational advantage.