Space Empires 5

[geoschmo]

Ah yes, but when you are the all powerful ruler of all that you survey, whether your predilictions are socially acceptable is of no concern. Societal mores only exsist to assist in keeping the masses in line with the arbitrary wishes of their Emporer. Or did you miss that day in "Despot 101"?

You haven't lived until you have had a quiet candelight dinner with the concubine of your choice sitting on the veranda watching the light show created by millions of rioting Xiati being jettisoned from your transports and reentering the atmposphere. It's fantastic!

Geo

[Baron Munchausen]

Micromanagement is supposed to be reduced by computers, not increased. If you have micromanagment problems with a 4X game it's not designed properly, and I don't mean that the simulation elements are out of place. More detail is good. It makes the game fun. All we have to do it design the game properly to have the detail without forcing us to work on it constantly. We can have technologies to cope with planet gravity, temperature, radiation, and even atmosphere type, without micromanagement hell. There can be ONE facility type for each and even combined facilities at higher techs, that automatically adjust the planet towards the ideal conditions for the population. Issue the order for the building of the facility or facilities once. Authorize upgrades globally when a new level of technology is discovered. What's the big deal?

I think detailed planetary conditions are essential to a good 4X game and I hope even SE IV will add something besides this moronic 'conditions' variable before it's done. We could have radiation levels, for example.

That and more detailed population abilities, with better retention of those abilities when captured/conquered, would make a huge difference in the fun level of the game. Also, more detail in mass population management. Populations ought to have persistent 'attitudes' towards each other, and your empire as a whole ought to have a defined 'central government' somewhere that can be destroyed or captured. A 'Seat of government' ought to be either a facility or a component so you can be paranoid like the Minbari and keep your government hidden in a ship somewhere.

More detail in other non-combat aspects of the game would be great, too. Stars ought to have internal dynamics and 'evolve' a little bit over the course of the game. Star conditions ought to affect both planets and stellar harnessing techs. Storms ought to appear and disappear, not just sit there like a type of planet. Comets ought to swing in and back out from their stars. When will comets be implemented, I wonder???

As far as ship features and combat features, yeah, we desperately need some 'randomness' to damage, and area effect weapons. At the very least we need the option to have collateral damage. It would not be that hard to have a check made on for adjacent ships when a ship blows up and allocation of a little damage. If there is a settable 'percent' for collateral damage in the config files, you can set it to zero if you don't want it.

I've been asking MM to implement different 'levels' of armor most recently. I think he could do it for SE IV if he wanted to. There would be levels of armor 'density' just like there are currently levels of cloaking, and then different levels of armor skipping just like there are levels of sensors. 'Skips Armor 1' would skip normal armor (the default 'titanium' stuff) but not 'Armor 2'. You could have an elaborate system of armor and armor-piercing technology then, with something like 'Neutronium' at the top being impenetrable. (level 9? something like that)

Of course, right now I'd be happy if Emissive Armor worked. It still doesn't stop any damag at all if the damage total is over the emissive ating...

[ July 12, 2002, 17:10: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ah yes, but when you are the all powerful ruler of all that you survey, whether your predilictions are socially acceptable is of no concern. Societal mores only exsist to assist in keeping the masses in line with the arbitrary wishes of their Emporer. Or did you miss that day in "Despot 101"?

You haven't lived until you have had a quiet candelight dinner with the concubine of your choice sitting on the veranda watching the light show created by millions of rioting Xiati being jettisoned from your transports and reentering the atmposphere. It's fantastic!

Geo

LOL LOL LOL LOL...

Yep, this is what it's all about. The fantasy of absolute power. And detail creates a better illusion of power.

[Growltigga]

Geo, I take back all the nice things I ever said about you, you really are a horrible nasty mean minded person.......

I shall make sure you are first up against the wall when the revolution comes.....

MWAAA HAAHAAHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Arkcon]

God I love reading this thread.

Okay, long time back someone suggested supplies be divided into two types (much like SE4 divied SE3's construction resource into Minerals, Organics, and Radioactives)

The two types of supplies are energy and ordinance (some military genius on this board gave me that word -- I try to insert it into everyday conversation as often as I can

Different components use different amouts of each, for example:
engines - lots of energy, a little ordinance

crew and life support - tiny amt of energy, a small amt of ordinance (food, atmosphere,reading lights)

anti proton beams - lots of energy, tiny amt of ordinance

capital ship missile, DUC, PD cannon - tiny amt of enery, lots of ordinance

Solar collectors and ramscoops may restore your energy storage containers, or perhaps advanced engines regenerate supplies when the ship isn't moving, but only advanced technology can create ordinance out of thin air (trek replicators)

So now your big bad missile ship or your inexpensive, yet quite powerful DUC5 are not so useful if you're very far from home -- it will be difficult to carry enough ordinace on-board or in a supply ship in the fleet

Of course, even energy weapons will need your ship to have some storage.

Hey, SE4 is very different from SE3. SE5 should be totally wierd by our current viewpoint. Face it, MM is working on Dungeon Odyssey and bug-fixing/minor code change for SE4. SE5 is probably a couple of years away

[ July 12, 2002, 17:06: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Baron Munchausen]

Arkcon, that was me that suggested ordinance. Weapon components could have an ordinance storage ability and you would only get ordinance from resupply depots or ships bringing it from resupply depots. No 'build missiles in space with solar energy' stunts! But I think the same thing could be done even more simply. Just have weapons that use actual physical amunition track their own amunition. A missile launcher should have a number that is decremented every time you fire. When it hits zero, no more shots. Now you have to go back to a resupply depot to reload. I think MM could implement that even in SE IV. Now, some people might get angry at not being able to 'move ammunition around' between components of the same type outside of combat, and implementing that might be difficult. But other than that one issue I think it would be fairly simple to do.

Note that I suggested some weapons might use both energy and ordinance, like torpedos. In Star Fleet Battles, at least, you do 'charge' a torpedo. But most would be one or the other.

[ July 12, 2002, 17:24: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[geoschmo]

I kind of like this energy/ordinance idea. It adds some detail, without too much detail. Running out of ordinance has obvious implications as far as missles and projectile weapons. What would be the implications for the ship as a whole if it used up all it's ordinance and still had energy? Would it still be able to move, just not shoot, except for energy weapons? You have emgines and energy weapons using a "tiny" amount of ordinance. What is this? Spare parts maybe? Would a complete lack of ordinance then cause engines to not function?

Geo

[Arkcon]

[quote]Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Arkcon, that we me that suggested ordinance.

I've been lurking awhile, I recognize the lion by the print of his paw

But I think the same thing could be done even more simply. Just have weapons that use actual physical amunition track their own amunition.

This would be simpler.

I think MM could implement that even in SE IV. Now, some people might get angry at not being able to 'move ammunition around' between

Now hold on there Tex, this is a big change in tactics for everyone -- MM might want to save this for a new Version so people don't get ticked off. I don't think it's worth MM's time to alter the code, and not make it the default -- that is only to be done in mods or by game setup switch, or maybe it is?

[geoschmo]

Actually Baron, if you "grey" the ammunition thing a bit it could work. Don't get particular on missle, or DUC ammo. Just make all weapons use the generic ammo. Then you could have ammo storage compartments, and ships in a fleet could share ammo the way ships share supply now. Maybe add an ability to create ammo at the cost of supplies, for the inevitable Trek mod replicators, but I those should be used sparingly if at all.

Would you have energy wepons use ammo, or standard supplies?

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Arkcon:
Now hold on there Tex, this is a big change in tactics for everyone -- MM might want to save this for a new Version so people don't get ticked off. I don't think it's worth MM's time to alter the code, and not make it the default -- that is only to be done in mods or by game setup switch, or maybe it is?

He could very easily add an optional "uses ammo" attribute that would not be in the stock game, but allow modders to change components to it if they wanted. One modder might want to make DUCS use ammo only and no supplies, while another might want some of both. But the stock game could have it use only supply.

As far as tracking ammo level, it would be in the code whether or not the particular mod was taking advantage of it. He could either just have it display a bar for ammo that was ignored, or maybe have a settings.txt entry to state whether ammo is to be used or not in the mod. It's doable, but it would be fairly complex.

And btw, if you are ever in dubt about who might have suggested something but you can't quite remember, it's a good bet it was Baron. He is a quite prolific "idea man".

Geoschmo