SE IV Gold: Starting tech levels? Yes or No? - Page 7

Phoenix-D · #61 January 5th, 2002, 05:12 AM

" I would think that if you could edit the facilities.txt (or components.txt file for that matter) cheating during multiplayer games would be VERY easy."

Not exactly. See, you have to be the HOST for this to work- the host processes the turns. And if it appies to one, it applies to everyone.

There is, still, an "anit-cheat" code in, but again assuming you're the host, it can be bypassed.

Phoenix-D

Kimball · #62 January 5th, 2002, 05:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
" I would think that if you could edit the facilities.txt (or components.txt file for that matter) cheating during multiplayer games would be VERY easy."

Not exactly. See, you have to be the HOST for this to work- the host processes the turns. And if it appies to one, it applies to everyone.

There is, still, an "anit-cheat" code in, but again assuming you're the host, it can be bypassed.

Phoenix-D

That makes sense, but what if you are playing turn based (different machines) instead of simltaneous? Different machines, different data files, dishonest person getting his butt kicked...

geoschmo · #63 January 5th, 2002, 05:29 AM

I suppose you are right Kimball. I am pretty sure just about everyone playing PBEM with SEIV is playing simultaneous turns. It can be played turn based, the same as SEIII, but I don't think too many do it that way.

But if they were that would definetly be an option for a dishonest person.

Geoschmo

Phoenix-D · #64 January 5th, 2002, 05:29 AM

Never done a MP seqential game, so I couldn't tell you.

Phoenix-D

geoschmo · #65 January 6th, 2002, 05:37 AM

Ok, here's my revised plan for a simulated starting tech level PBW/PBEM game.

The game owner creates the first turn using stock SEIV files. For best results use the 100K start, although this is not totally neccesary.

The players play the first turn using stock files. (They will have to as the cheat protection will not allow them to do otherwise.) Once all the .plr files are in, the game owner processes the first turn offline, using modified data files. The facilities.txt file will be changed so that the research facility does nothing, and the Space Yard facility produces research points (100K per turn? Any number you want I suppose) and cannot construct anything. And change the settigns.txt file to reduce the base empire usage rates to zero. The effect of these changes is that as long as the modified data files are being used, empires cannot build anything, only research at a highly accelerated rate. These files will have to be distributed to the players so they can play there turns during the accelerated phase.

After a suitable period (1 year?) the turn will be processed using stock files and the players can begin constructing again.

AI can be used with this, although as stated before they may not be terribly efficent in the early turns and may lose some points because they only stack a couple projects at a time.

This has advatages over my previous ides, because each race will have only one research producing facility (modified space yard) regardless of whethere they are advanced storage or not. When I tested the other idea they were getting an extra research facility, which is a 20% bonus over the other races. With this plan the only difference in research production will be because of cultural or physical characteristics. If you still think that is unfair, you could mod the culture file to remove that one. Nothing you can do about the characteristics, except ban players from having improved intelligence. I don't see it as a big problem though.

One possible problem I can see would be is your homeworld population became unhappy because no ships are beign built. I don't think this would happen unless an enemy was in the same system, and that shouldn't happen if the enemies can't build ships either. If it does we can modify the happiness text file too.

Comments? If there is interest in this I can set up a game with this.

Geoschmo

Q · #66 January 6th, 2002, 08:47 AM

Geoschmo your idea might work, but isn't it a real shame that you must perform such a complicated procedure to achieve something that was so easy to do in SE III?? Wouldn't it be possible to persuade MM to implement this in a future patch (if it is too late now for SE IV Gold)?

geoschmo · #67 January 6th, 2002, 07:49 PM

I don't know Q. I have no more influence over Malfador than anyone else. I am pretty sure it's been requested. Maybe if more people request it it will be done.

As far as my idea being complicated though, it's not really. Once the data files are set up, it's just a matter of using the mod selector to chose the proper files. No trouble at all really.

Geoschmo

thubar2000 · #68 January 7th, 2002, 06:16 PM

I something weird happened to what I tried to post. Anyway, wouldn't it just be easier to make the initial tech points adjustable. I'm referring to the 20k at the beginning of a low tech game. In effect, the tech just arrives a round later.

This has the advantage of using an existing mechanism.

If the AI uses its usual way of choosing tech projects, this won't cause to much grief for Aaron. If it uses a different method, this may not be feasible.

Thu

Suicide Junkie · #69 January 7th, 2002, 07:26 PM

The key thing you've missed, Thubar, is that you need to be able to research deeper than one level in a tech.

Given the research system in SE4, you cannot have excess research spill over into the next tech level.

IE: in SE3, you could dump 100,000 research points into propulsion on turn 1, then add nothing more. On turn 2, you would get tech level two, and your progress bar would be full. On turn 3, you'd get level 3, and your bar would still be full.

In SE4, any excess points are lost, so players would all get tech level 1 or 2 in everything, and there'd be no variety.

geoschmo · #70 January 7th, 2002, 07:56 PM

Personally I was not all that great a fan of the starting tech levels system in SEIII anyway. You could get another level of propulsion for the same cost as a level of steallar manipulation. That didn't make much sense. There needed to be some way to factor in the variable cost in research for different techs.

Although I am sure it helped to speed up those Multiplayer games some. With simultaneous turns in SEIV that really isn't as much of a critical determining factor anymore.

If you don't want to research every tech every game, do a medium tech start. If that is too low, tweak the "raise levels" in the text file. If you don't want everybody to have the same tech start, you can try my idea. Or we can get back to work on the racial tech/start tech mod. The point is you have options. You don't have to wait for a code change that might not happen, and that not everyone would agree is a good idea.

Geoschmo