Melee Power Rankings Chart

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Pillin:
Ahem.. looking over the chart i see some errors i've done. Replace these two in creatures and that should help

Got it=) AP doesn't affect the actual results, though, until I add trample. Or mod-output capability. So the previous results still stand

[Goad]

The combat simulator tells me that the number of ulm guardians or knights I can get for the first two turns of gold/resource will do far better against indies than the same amount spent on pikeneer_1s. But in play, the pikeneers seem to do dramatically better.

This seems to be for three reasons:

1, Most important, the repel causes indies to rout sooner.
2. The greater size of the starting out army with pikeneers causes my army to be less likely to rout.
3. The guardians/knights get bunched up in the default starting forces and don't actually do as much. On the other hand, if two or three knights are deployed such that they engage by themselves, they have a too high chance of dying.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Goad:
The combat simulator tells me that the number of ulm guardians or knights I can get for the first two turns of gold/resource will do far better against indies than the same amount spent on pikeneer_1s. But in play, the pikeneers seem to do dramatically better.

This seems to be for three reasons:

1, Most important, the repel causes indies to rout sooner.
2. The greater size of the starting out army with pikeneers causes my army to be less likely to rout.
3. The guardians/knights get bunched up in the default starting forces and don't actually do as much. On the other hand, if two or three knights are deployed such that they engage by themselves, they have a too high chance of dying.

Repel is important, and the morale pool is important. However, there's another factor: Being swarmed.

The power ranking chart is generally 1-on-1, while in-game combat occurs many-on-many. This has two MAJOR effects:

1) A defense decrease each time a unit is struck, which is important versus Groups, and irrelevant in 1-on-1 combat.

2) Every action causes fatigue. 6 Pikeneers with 6 encumbrance could attack 7*100/6 = 119 times before passing out. 2 Black Knights with 5 encumbrance can attack only 2*100/5 times = 40 times, plus 2 lance attacks and 40 some 10-damage hoof attacks that won't really kill anything. Total 82 attacks, but considering that half of them are "hoof" attacks... let's say 60 net attacks. So against a horde of weaklings, Black Knights would pass out before killing as many units as Pikeneers. Fatigue also decreases unit stats and so forth.

So, to see whether you're better off with pikeneers or Black Knights, simulate EXACTLY what you want to do:

code:

---

C:\Projects\Java\Dominions>java RectMatrix 7*ulm.pikeneer.1 2*ulm.black.knight 

vs 20*light.inf 10000

..



Deathmatch Power Ratings for 10000 rounds:



7*Ulm Pikeneer 1 ------------ Wins: 70.8%   Power:  1919   Overall:  1397

2*Ulm Black Knight ---------- Wins: 12.0%   Power:   189   Overall:   347

20*Light Inf ---------------- Wins: 58.6%   Power:  1293   Overall:  1000



Average --------------------- Wins: 47.1%   Power:  1133   Overall:   914

Median ---------------------- Wins: 58.6%   Power:  1293   Overall:  1000

---

This fights 7 ulm pikeneers against 20 indy LI, then 2 knights against 20 indy LI. And as you can see, the pikes do better!

For reference, the syntax is:

java RectMatrix #*a1 #*a2 ... vs #*b1 #*b2 ... battles

where
# means the number of that unit type
a1, a2, ... mean the name of a unit
b1, b2, ... mean the name of a unit
"vs" is between the "a" units and "b" units.
"rounds" is the number of rounds for each engagement

This will make each unit on side "a" fight each unit on side "b" in a rectangular matrix. For example, in this scenario:

java RectMatrix 10*a1 10*a2 5*a3 vs 1*b1 1*b2 100

Each engagement would be fought to the death 100 times, and there would be 6 engagements, as follow:

ten a1's versus one b1
ten a2's versus one b1
five a3's versus one b1
ten a1's versus one b1
ten a2's versus one b2
five a3's versus one b2

[ March 05, 2004, 22:44: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Saber Cherry]

Incidentally...

Note that the big chart in this thread has "Deathmatch" rankings and "Gauntlet" rankings. The difference is that 1-on-1 "Gauntlet" is more like a real battle - units keep replacing the dead until 50 rounds are up, whereas "Deathmatch" ends as soon as one side or the other dies.

So the power rankings in "Gauntlet" mode are much more realistic for normal scenarios -1v1 "Deathmatch" is better for assassinations, Arena combat, and battles between very small armies (like a scout versus some local militia).

However, to really accurately model a large battle (homogenous on each side) you can't use the 1-on-1 numbers from the "Battle Rankings"... instead model the battle with RectMatrix or Fight using unit multipliers as shown below. The power rankings are just a sort of guideline.

If you look at Black Knights and Pikeneers in the Deathmatch mode, Black Knights are 20X as good... but in Gauntlet mode, they are only 2X as good.

Black Templars with a Nature/Earth blessing (reinvigoration/berserk/regeneration) would do much better, though. You can simulate blessing effects in the combat sim, but you have to do it in the unittypes file, not in the command line.

[ March 05, 2004, 23:28: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Endoperez]

I am bumping the old (ancient) thread having the unit listings Saber Cherry created with the help of her Java-based Combat Simulator. I think a link is somewhere in this thread, and it can be easily found by searching for Combat (not Battle!) Simulator. It produces numerical stats for units fighting. It might not support all the abilities of units, but it has most of them.

This was Last updated in (edit March, so it is a bit outdated... One more reason to learn how to 'pay for the free things'. Check the 'Time to pay up' thread for more information about that.

[ June 11, 2004, 19:08: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

[Saber Cherry]

Yay, some new deathmatch ratings, with new functionality!

I changed some things. First off, in response to Wombats' email, I fixed the combat sim's big bug, which was that it was not correctly calculating (att vs def) rolls since the last version when I tried to speed up some calculations.

Second, scores are no longer calculated on the basis of wins versus losses. Instead, the score is calculated based on kills versus deaths. So if 10 Ulm infantry fight 10 militia, with 10 militia deaths and all Ulm troops surviving, that is a 100% win. But if 10 light infantry fight 10 militia, all the milita die, and only 5 light infantry survive... that is a 75% win. This change makes the simulator MUCH more accurate for group versus group combat. After all, if you eliminate 99% of the enemy troops with (for example) a summoned lessor horror, that's basically as good as winning.

Lastly, and most interesting, I made an "Equalize" mode that takes a whole bunch of units and fights them against each other over and over (for 4 days...) and adjusts the squad size each time until the perfom roughly the same. This is enumerated below. The far left number is the the number of that unit type that is equivalent in melee combat to 200 militia (the kind with a spear and leather cuirass). That does not mean they beat 200 militia 50% of the time, but that they perform as well as 200 militia (or any other listed group), on average, when fighting all the other listed groups. Thus, if you are fighting a random squadron listed below (for example, 200 militia, 165 soulless warriors, 65 imps, or 4 lesser horrors) but don't know which one you are facing, any of the below squadrons would have a similar chance of success. Note that "Win %" and "Overall Score" don't seem to directly correlate... well, um, that's hard for me to explain, but basically, if a group has a high win% and low overall score, it does well against groups with a low win% and bad against groups a high win%, and vice versa. Anyway, there is some opinion and guesswork that goes into the formula that ranks these, but I don't think it's possible to have them all get a 50% win rate, so that's probably OK. Although I'll look into it =)

Regardless! For now, I'm assuming that (In melee combat versus other listed groups only) the below groups are all of approximately equal value, which will help me determine gold costs and potential unit buffs for my mod. And hopefully it will help other people as well. Just remember that these rankings are limited to other listed members! Against cavalry (which have higher than normal defense, and are not included in this simulation run) or ethereal units or with mages casting spells, the balance of power will change.

And one more thing - the program tried to make all the group sizes so that the far right number was equal to 1000, but obviously, it didn't quite make it (and it is probably impossible to get exactly). So if 23 Pan Centaur Cataphracts (which are not TECHNICALLY cavalry) have a score of 1110, that means that they're slightly stronger average, but probably a group of 22 would be lower than 1000, and 23 (at overall score = 1110) is the closest the program could get to equivalence (1000).

Code:

---

Deathmatch Power Ratings for 12 rounds:



200*Militia ----------------- Wins: 46.2%   Power:   892   Overall:   913

423*Blood Slave ------------- Wins: 29.3%   Power:   501   Overall:   938

121*Militia Elite ----------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1133   Overall:   974

141*Militia Medium ---------- Wins: 51.7%   Power:  1053   Overall:   979

129*Tribal Warrior ---------- Wins: 48.7%   Power:   961   Overall:   957

110*Light Inf --------------- Wins: 56.3%   Power:  1207   Overall:   981

92*Light Inf Javelin -------- Wins: 56.6%   Power:  1217   Overall:   991

91*Heavy Inf Ring ----------- Wins: 56.5%   Power:  1215   Overall:  1022

66*Heavy Inf Scale ---------- Wins: 54.6%   Power:  1148   Overall:   995

60*Heavy Inf Chain ---------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1134   Overall:  1003

94*Barbarian Maul ----------- Wins: 52.2%   Power:  1069   Overall:   966

70*Barbarian Sword ---------- Wins: 56.0%   Power:  1194   Overall:  1016

83*Lizard Warrior ----------- Wins: 58.7%   Power:  1297   Overall:   996

154*Raptor ------------------ Wins: 54.8%   Power:  1154   Overall:   979

149*Ichtyid ----------------- Wins: 55.2%   Power:  1166   Overall:   974

92*Ichtyid Warrior ---------- Wins: 54.8%   Power:  1154   Overall:   993

195*Triton Knife ------------ Wins: 53.9%   Power:  1123   Overall:   991

154*Triton Spear ------------ Wins: 55.8%   Power:  1188   Overall:   989

126*Triton Guard ------------ Wins: 58.2%   Power:  1278   Overall:  1011

200*Wolf -------------------- Wins: 53.6%   Power:  1113   Overall:  1007

66*Mercenary Hammer --------- Wins: 56.6%   Power:  1217   Overall:  1044

56*Mercenary Sword ---------- Wins: 56.9%   Power:  1230   Overall:  1021

68*Mercenary Spear ---------- Wins: 55.1%   Power:  1163   Overall:  1008

62*Mercenary Morningstar ---- Wins: 53.3%   Power:  1105   Overall:   987

81*Mercenary Pike ----------- Wins: 58.0%   Power:  1270   Overall:  1008

61*Mercenary Crossbow ------- Wins: 53.2%   Power:  1099   Overall:  1001

45*Mercenary Captain -------- Wins: 55.8%   Power:  1188   Overall:   988

10*Eternal Knight ----------- Wins: 31.0%   Power:   536   Overall:  1006

163*Crystal Amazon ---------- Wins: 52.8%   Power:  1086   Overall:   994

70*Garnet Amazon ------------ Wins: 53.7%   Power:  1117   Overall:   996

83*Jade Amazon -------------- Wins: 54.0%   Power:  1128   Overall:   991

70*Onyx Amazon -------------- Wins: 53.2%   Power:  1102   Overall:   993

118*Flagellant -------------- Wins: 49.5%   Power:   985   Overall:   911

117*Flagellant Blessed ------ Wins: 50.2%   Power:  1005   Overall:   916

92*Flagellant Fire10 -------- Wins: 49.9%   Power:   997   Overall:   891

110*Flagellant Earth10 ------ Wins: 52.5%   Power:  1079   Overall:   934

108*Flagellant Air10 -------- Wins: 42.9%   Power:   805   Overall:   961

110*Flagellant Nature10 ----- Wins: 51.7%   Power:  1053   Overall:   954

73*Flagellant Astral10 ------ Wins: 38.1%   Power:   688   Overall:   981

99*Flagellant Water10 ------- Wins: 55.0%   Power:  1160   Overall:  1005

105*Flagellant Blood8 ------- Wins: 49.9%   Power:   997   Overall:   917

75*Flagellant Fire9 Water9 -- Wins: 56.8%   Power:  1226   Overall:  1011

60*Flagellant Fire9 Astral9 - Wins: 40.9%   Power:   755   Overall:   969

53*Flagellant Astral9 Water~  Wins: 42.4%   Power:   792   Overall:  1066

91*Flagellant Rainbow4 ------ Wins: 53.5%   Power:  1111   Overall:   978

261*Slinger ----------------- Wins: 47.6%   Power:   930   Overall:  1009

183*Tribal Archer ----------- Wins: 50.7%   Power:  1022   Overall:   998

224*Villain ----------------- Wins: 52.1%   Power:  1064   Overall:   979

180*Woodsman ---------------- Wins: 53.3%   Power:  1104   Overall:  1002

180*Woodsman Blowpipe ------- Wins: 52.8%   Power:  1088   Overall:  1016

248*Light Archer ------------ Wins: 49.9%   Power:   996   Overall:   993

179*Archer ------------------ Wins: 53.4%   Power:  1106   Overall:   981

129*Heavy Archer ------------ Wins: 47.1%   Power:   917   Overall:   987

235*Light Crossbowman ------- Wins: 48.5%   Power:   955   Overall:   989

185*Medium Crossbowman ------ Wins: 50.8%   Power:  1023   Overall:   989

131*Heavy Crossbowman ------- Wins: 46.7%   Power:   905   Overall:   987

129*Longbowman -------------- Wins: 56.4%   Power:  1212   Overall:   961

146*Scout ------------------- Wins: 54.9%   Power:  1157   Overall:   970

123*Spy --------------------- Wins: 58.9%   Power:  1304   Overall:  1014

72*Commander Scale ---------- Wins: 56.3%   Power:  1205   Overall:   996

62*Commander Chain ---------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1220   Overall:  1036

53*Commander Plate ---------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1132   Overall:  1005

53*Barbarian Chief ---------- Wins: 54.9%   Power:  1157   Overall:  1022

41*Barbarian Lord ----------- Wins: 53.8%   Power:  1119   Overall:  1044

113*Triton Lord ------------- Wins: 58.7%   Power:  1299   Overall:  1002

278*Bloodhenge Druid -------- Wins: 37.0%   Power:   665   Overall:   973

67*Ichtyid Lord ------------- Wins: 58.4%   Power:  1285   Overall:  1001

134*Ghoul ------------------- Wins: 35.3%   Power:   627   Overall:   999

139*Longdead Spear 1 -------- Wins: 33.9%   Power:   597   Overall:   987

93*Longdead Spear 2 --------- Wins: 36.9%   Power:   662   Overall:  1018

114*Longdead Sword 1 -------- Wins: 36.9%   Power:   661   Overall:  1020

110*Longdead Sword 2 -------- Wins: 37.7%   Power:   680   Overall:  1026

81*Longdead Sword 3 --------- Wins: 38.5%   Power:   698   Overall:  1022

75*Longdead Sword 4 --------- Wins: 36.7%   Power:   656   Overall:   996

38*Longdead Giant ----------- Wins: 39.2%   Power:   714   Overall:  1074

235*Longdead Archer --------- Wins: 26.6%   Power:   447   Overall:   925

114*Damned Buccaneer -------- Wins: 36.0%   Power:   641   Overall:  1010

44*Mound King --------------- Wins: 38.4%   Power:   696   Overall:  1026

347*Soulless ---------------- Wins: 26.7%   Power:   450   Overall:   999

165*Soulless Warrior -------- Wins: 32.0%   Power:   556   Overall:  1001

102*Heavy Soulless Warrior -- Wins: 31.7%   Power:   549   Overall:   990

313*Soulless of Caelum ------ Wins: 27.2%   Power:   459   Overall:   982

244*Soulless of C'tis ------- Wins: 29.1%   Power:   496   Overall:   998

260*Soulless of Atlantis ---- Wins: 29.3%   Power:   501   Overall:  1009

177*Corpse Construct -------- Wins: 31.2%   Power:   539   Overall:  1002

116*Manikin ----------------- Wins: 32.3%   Power:   562   Overall:  1022

91*Satyr Manikin ------------ Wins: 33.2%   Power:   581   Overall:  1016

164*Harpy Manikin ----------- Wins: 40.5%   Power:   747   Overall:   973

83*Carrion Horse ------------ Wins: 30.9%   Power:   534   Overall:  1003

114*Carrion Wolf ------------ Wins: 33.1%   Power:   578   Overall:  1013

119*Carrion Boar ------------ Wins: 32.7%   Power:   571   Overall:  1010

68*Imp ---------------------- Wins: 35.8%   Power:   637   Overall:  1005

52*Bone Fiend --------------- Wins: 37.4%   Power:   674   Overall:  1019

36*False Horror ------------- Wins: 36.6%   Power:   656   Overall:  1027

5*Lesser Horror ------------- Wins: 22.3%   Power:   367   Overall:   951

142*Vine Man ---------------- Wins: 27.8%   Power:   470   Overall:   975

19*Spring Hawk -------------- Wins: 30.6%   Power:   527   Overall:  1035

62*Winter Wolf -------------- Wins: 38.8%   Power:   705   Overall:  1029

76*AB Humanbred Spear ------- Wins: 57.2%   Power:  1240   Overall:  1029

81*AB Humanbred Axe --------- Wins: 55.5%   Power:  1180   Overall:  1007

54*AB Heavy Humanbred Axe --- Wins: 48.5%   Power:   957   Overall:  1003

43*AB Heavy Humanbred Morni~  Wins: 51.1%   Power:  1033   Overall:  1009

55*AB Heavy Humanbred Battl~  Wins: 52.5%   Power:  1077   Overall:   986

43*AB Heavy Humanbred Flail - Wins: 50.6%   Power:  1019   Overall:  1009

44*AB Inf Battleaxe --------- Wins: 52.3%   Power:  1070   Overall:  1039

34*AB Inf Flail ------------- Wins: 47.1%   Power:   917   Overall:   957

42*AB Inf Axe --------------- Wins: 50.3%   Power:  1008   Overall:  1024

33*AB Inf Morningstar ------- Wins: 50.1%   Power:  1003   Overall:  1035

57*AB Commander ------------- Wins: 53.3%   Power:  1105   Overall:  1010

111*AR Peltast -------------- Wins: 57.7%   Power:  1260   Overall:  1007

99*AR Cardaces -------------- Wins: 58.1%   Power:  1276   Overall:  1013

46*AR Hoplite --------------- Wins: 53.4%   Power:  1106   Overall:  1031

48*AR Hypaspist ------------- Wins: 57.1%   Power:  1234   Overall:  1020

45*AR Heart Companion ------- Wins: 54.5%   Power:  1144   Overall:  1050

124*AR Scout ---------------- Wins: 58.0%   Power:  1271   Overall:  1011

33*AR Hoplite Commander ----- Wins: 54.7%   Power:  1152   Overall:  1059

141*AT Spearman 1 ----------- Wins: 58.1%   Power:  1275   Overall:   993

113*AT Spearman 2 ----------- Wins: 60.1%   Power:  1354   Overall:  1010

87*AT Reef Warrior ---------- Wins: 57.4%   Power:  1247   Overall:  1017

53*AT Coral Guard ----------- Wins: 51.5%   Power:  1046   Overall:   994

71*AT Shambler -------------- Wins: 56.0%   Power:  1196   Overall:  1001

167*AT Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.1%   Power:  1164   Overall:   984

74*AT Shambler Chief -------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1223   Overall:  1008

140*CA Spire Horn 1 --------- Wins: 52.5%   Power:  1077   Overall:   979

107*CA Spire Horn 2 --------- Wins: 52.9%   Power:  1092   Overall:  1014

214*CA Archer --------------- Wins: 43.9%   Power:   829   Overall:  1003

199*CA Blizzard Warrior ----- Wins: 42.1%   Power:   784   Overall:  1092

109*CA Light Inf ------------ Wins: 50.9%   Power:  1027   Overall:   985

87*CA Inf ------------------- Wins: 47.9%   Power:   938   Overall:   993

60*CA Storm Guard ----------- Wins: 48.2%   Power:   949   Overall:  1015

48*CA Iceclad --------------- Wins: 45.3%   Power:   868   Overall:  1001

36*CA Temple Guard ---------- Wins: 48.5%   Power:   955   Overall:   995

96*CA Wingless -------------- Wins: 52.8%   Power:  1088   Overall:   998

87*CA Scout ----------------- Wins: 48.3%   Power:   950   Overall:   993

34*CA Storm General --------- Wins: 43.6%   Power:   823   Overall:   943

172*CT Militia -------------- Wins: 51.5%   Power:  1047   Overall:   989

98*CT Light Inf ------------- Wins: 55.2%   Power:  1168   Overall:  1002

68*CT City Guard ------------ Wins: 52.6%   Power:  1081   Overall:   985

60*CT Heavy Inf ------------- Wins: 51.6%   Power:  1049   Overall:   992

73*CT Falchioneer ----------- Wins: 54.1%   Power:  1130   Overall:   994

90*CT Slave Warrior --------- Wins: 56.5%   Power:  1213   Overall:   964

70*CT Elite Warrior --------- Wins: 59.5%   Power:  1328   Overall:  1018

107*CT Runner --------------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1135   Overall:   980

44*CT Swamp Guard ----------- Wins: 51.2%   Power:  1038   Overall:   976

55*CT Serpent Dancer -------- Wins: 57.4%   Power:  1247   Overall:  1007

80*CT Sacred Serpent -------- Wins: 54.8%   Power:  1156   Overall:  1000

83*ER Longdead Legionnaire -- Wins: 36.9%   Power:   661   Overall:  1005

89*ER Longdead Velite ------- Wins: 35.9%   Power:   639   Overall:  1002

4*ER Wailing Lady ----------- Wins: 40.5%   Power:   745   Overall:   856

123*JO Vaetti --------------- Wins: 54.0%   Power:  1127   Overall:  1010

40*JO Militia --------------- Wins: 40.6%   Power:   748   Overall:   997

206*MAC Militia ------------- Wins: 50.5%   Power:  1016   Overall:   992

264*MAC Archer -------------- Wins: 50.1%   Power:  1003   Overall:   985

127*MAC Warrior ------------- Wins: 56.9%   Power:  1229   Overall:  1010

45*MAC Hoplite -------------- Wins: 55.0%   Power:  1160   Overall:  1021

32*MAC Spider Warrior ------- Wins: 53.9%   Power:  1123   Overall:  1120

106*MAC Chief --------------- Wins: 56.4%   Power:  1210   Overall:   969

92*Man Spearman ------------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1223   Overall:   991

94*Man Longspear ------------ Wins: 56.9%   Power:  1229   Overall:  1039

90*Man Axeman --------------- Wins: 52.9%   Power:  1091   Overall:  1006

128*Man Longbowman ---------- Wins: 57.7%   Power:  1261   Overall:   982

52*Man Tower Guard ---------- Wins: 55.0%   Power:  1160   Overall:   991

30*Man Warden of Avalon ----- Wins: 53.7%   Power:  1117   Overall:  1101

117*Man Forester ------------ Wins: 53.2%   Power:  1100   Overall:   962

47*Man Castellan ------------ Wins: 55.2%   Power:  1166   Overall:  1015

390*Man Monk ---------------- Wins: 34.3%   Power:   605   Overall:  1001

144*MAR Crossbowman --------- Wins: 55.7%   Power:  1186   Overall:   981

59*MAR Swordsman ------------ Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1223   Overall:   981

76*MAR Halberdier ----------- Wins: 57.4%   Power:  1248   Overall:  1016

77*MAR Pikeneer ------------- Wins: 55.7%   Power:  1185   Overall:  1003

49*MAR Man at Arms ---------- Wins: 55.7%   Power:  1185   Overall:  1025

228*MAR Friar --------------- Wins: 40.7%   Power:   750   Overall:   999

251*MI Slave ---------------- Wins: 47.2%   Power:   918   Overall:   980

158*MI Warrior 1 ------------ Wins: 54.0%   Power:  1127   Overall:   990

107*MI Warrior 2 ------------ Wins: 55.9%   Power:  1193   Overall:  1003

99*MI Warrior 3 ------------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1132   Overall:   979

94*MI Warrior 4 ------------- Wins: 48.8%   Power:   963   Overall:   987

80*MI Feathered Warrior ----- Wins: 52.6%   Power:  1081   Overall:  1045

106*MI Eagle Warrior -------- Wins: 53.6%   Power:  1114   Overall:   942

90*MI Jaguar Warrior -------- Wins: 57.2%   Power:  1239   Overall:   987

69*MI Sun Warrior ----------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1132   Overall:  1027

159*MI Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.1%   Power:  1166   Overall:  1009

60*MI Tribal King ----------- Wins: 59.8%   Power:  1342   Overall:  1026

217*Pan Harpy --------------- Wins: 41.4%   Power:   768   Overall:   911

117*Pan Satyr 1 ------------- Wins: 54.6%   Power:  1147   Overall:   990

117*Pan Satyr 2 ------------- Wins: 54.4%   Power:  1141   Overall:   984

99*Pan Satyr 3 -------------- Wins: 56.5%   Power:  1214   Overall:  1001

53*Pan Satyr Hoplite -------- Wins: 57.8%   Power:  1264   Overall:  1016

75*Pan Satyr Reveler -------- Wins: 57.3%   Power:  1244   Overall:  1000

51*Pan Centaur -------------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1220   Overall:   984

26*Pan Centaur Warrior ------ Wins: 58.5%   Power:  1288   Overall:  1063

23*Pan Centaur Cataphract --- Wins: 59.8%   Power:  1340   Overall:  1110

90*PY Velite ---------------- Wins: 55.8%   Power:  1189   Overall:   975

65*PY Legionnaire ----------- Wins: 52.0%   Power:  1062   Overall:   986

58*PY Hastatus -------------- Wins: 51.2%   Power:  1037   Overall:   980

47*PY Principe -------------- Wins: 51.1%   Power:  1032   Overall:   948

51*PY Triarius -------------- Wins: 49.6%   Power:   988   Overall:  1004

27*PY Emerald Guard --------- Wins: 52.8%   Power:  1089   Overall:   959

61*PY Gladiator Trident ----- Wins: 58.5%   Power:  1289   Overall:  1032

56*PY Gladiator Flail ------- Wins: 56.4%   Power:  1211   Overall:  1017

88*PY Battle Vestal --------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1222   Overall:   988

69*Hydra Hatchling ---------- Wins: 52.3%   Power:  1070   Overall:   987

195*RY Lobo Guard ----------- Wins: 42.2%   Power:   788   Overall:   986

116*RY Slave Trooper -------- Wins: 56.8%   Power:  1226   Overall:   996

80*RY Slave Guardian -------- Wins: 57.2%   Power:  1240   Overall:   973

47*RY Meteorite Guard ------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1222   Overall:  1031

89*RY Shambler Thrall ------- Wins: 46.4%   Power:   896   Overall:   986

167*RY Scout ---------------- Wins: 54.7%   Power:  1152   Overall:   965

172*TC Archer --------------- Wins: 53.5%   Power:  1109   Overall:   992

106*TC Footman Glaive ------- Wins: 56.4%   Power:  1209   Overall:   998

109*TC Footman Pike --------- Wins: 56.8%   Power:  1227   Overall:  1013

85*TC Footman Spear --------- Wins: 56.9%   Power:  1227   Overall:  1025

103*TC Imperial Archer ------ Wins: 52.5%   Power:  1076   Overall:  1007

103*TC Imperial Crossbowman - Wins: 51.5%   Power:  1045   Overall:   989

79*TC Imperial Glaive ------- Wins: 56.4%   Power:  1209   Overall:   992

69*TC Imperial Spear -------- Wins: 52.9%   Power:  1090   Overall:  1025

52*TC Imperial Guard -------- Wins: 54.7%   Power:  1150   Overall:   964

283*TC Eunuch --------------- Wins: 46.7%   Power:   905   Overall:   953

65*TC Lu Tung Pin ----------- Wins: 43.1%   Power:   809   Overall:   985

28*Ulm Guardian ------------- Wins: 53.1%   Power:  1098   Overall:  1110

58*Ulm Inf Battleaxe 1 ------ Wins: 53.9%   Power:  1124   Overall:  1005

42*Ulm Inf Battleaxe 2 ------ Wins: 49.2%   Power:   976   Overall:   999

45*Ulm Inf Flail 1 ---------- Wins: 51.4%   Power:  1043   Overall:  1030

29*Ulm Inf Flail 2 ---------- Wins: 46.3%   Power:   894   Overall:  1023

52*Ulm Inf Hammer 1 --------- Wins: 50.1%   Power:  1004   Overall:  1015

51*Ulm Inf Hammer 2 --------- Wins: 45.9%   Power:   883   Overall:  1012

60*Ulm Inf Maul 1 ----------- Wins: 53.7%   Power:  1116   Overall:  1015

43*Ulm Inf Maul 2 ----------- Wins: 50.4%   Power:  1013   Overall:  1043

45*Ulm Inf Morningstar 1 ---- Wins: 49.3%   Power:   979   Overall:   987

41*Ulm Inf Morningstar 2 ---- Wins: 44.0%   Power:   833   Overall:  1002

57*Ulm Pikeneer 1 ----------- Wins: 53.6%   Power:  1114   Overall:  1003

41*Ulm Pikeneer 2 ----------- Wins: 52.8%   Power:  1088   Overall:  1012

41*Ulm Commander Hammer 1 --- Wins: 52.4%   Power:  1076   Overall:  1020

41*Ulm Commander Hammer 2 --- Wins: 49.3%   Power:   980   Overall:  1029

37*Ulm Commander Morningsta~  Wins: 52.5%   Power:  1078   Overall:  1083

34*Ulm Commander Morningsta~  Wins: 44.5%   Power:   847   Overall:   968

88*Ulm Crossbowman ---------- Wins: 51.8%   Power:  1055   Overall:   989

157*Ulm Sapper -------------- Wins: 51.6%   Power:  1049   Overall:   967

97*VA Huskarl Axe ----------- Wins: 53.5%   Power:  1109   Overall:   975

91*VA Huskarl Spear --------- Wins: 56.3%   Power:  1207   Overall:  1011

61*VA Hirdman Spear --------- Wins: 54.6%   Power:  1149   Overall:  1021

51*VA Hirdman Sword --------- Wins: 54.5%   Power:  1143   Overall:   993

75*VA Skin Shifter ---------- Wins: 56.7%   Power:  1223   Overall:  1020

31*VA Einhere --------------- Wins: 54.2%   Power:  1134   Overall:  1004

41*Werewolf ----------------- Wins: 54.6%   Power:  1147   Overall:   960

146*VA Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.4%   Power:  1176   Overall:   985

45*VA Herse ----------------- Wins: 55.6%   Power:  1183   Overall:  1018



Average --------------------- Wins: 49.9%   Power:  1022   Overall:   998

Median ---------------------- Wins: 52.9%   Power:  1092   Overall:  1000

Overall RMS: 999

Overall RMH: 1000

---

RMS: Root mean square.
RMH: (4th)Root mean hypercube.

The closer these are to 1000, the more similar the groups' powers are.

[Boron]

Another very interesting Chart Saber Cherry .

Especially the False Horror and Skeleton Ranks are interesting .

Could you add vans normal and with f9/10 bless ?
And Mictlan Sun Warriors and Jaguar Warriors with f9/10 bless ?

Jaguar Warriors and Vans can be massproduced so it would be very interesting how well they do vs. the other enemies .
And finally you could maybe also add f9/10 blessed centaur warriors and marignon knights of the chalice .

I consider all those as ultraelite-troops and it would be interesting how many are needed to beat e.g. 200 militia .
Finally you could maybe also add a few elite summons , especially Mech Men , devils , FoDs , Serpent Fiends , Demon Knights and Dark Vines .

My guess would be that 10-15 Devils or FoDs are enough to wipe out like 200 Militia or 70 Principes .
For comparision purposes this info would be excellent for me personally .

[Huzurdaddi]

Since the fight was against militia it seems that would break the militia quickly did well. That why units with fear auras did exceptionally well ( lesser horrors, wailing ladies ). The units with many low penetration attacks did well ( hello imps! ).

[Tuna]

Boron: DL the App and test it yourself. I personally have found the app to be VERY useful, thanks Saber Cherry!

As for devils vs 200 militia: The critical mass is somewhere in mid 20's. While 23 Devils are the first group to win over 50% of their battles, 26 already wins over 90% and 28 wins 99,9%. After you go past 30, the avg Deaths per battle start to quickly decline and not even extreme odds help the militia anymore as even if you run huge amounts of battles, the win rate for devils is flat 100%.

The key concept of cource is that the devils are surrounded. Their primary line of defence is the strong Def and high hit points, having 9 militaman poking a devil with sharp sticks at the same time is of cource bad. Once you have enough devils that they form a coherent enough line (in real game situations storm actually helps here), they start to win easily even if you up the number of militia. For the same reason, 70 principes perform considerably worse against devils, losing 99.9% of the time against just 20 devils...

All in all devils still seem a bargain for their price

[Tuna]

Huzurdaddi said:
Since the fight was against militia it seems that would break the militia quickly did well. That why units with fear auras did exceptionally well ( lesser horrors, wailing ladies ). The units with many low penetration attacks did well ( hello imps! ).

Umm... no. The fight was against everything in the list, With amounts that yelded about the same results as 200 militia.