SE IV Gold: Starting tech levels? Yes or No? - Page 6

Lastseer · #51 January 4th, 2002, 03:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
The AI uses their normal research scripts at the game start, but since they only queue a couple of projects they might lose a few points. Wouldn't be the end of the world though.

Geoschmo

So all that needs to be done is to allow unused research points to carry from turn to turn and then you have a full starting techs solution. (maybe degrade carried points by a small percentage like 5%, or allow carry over during the first 10 turns only.)

Kimball · #52 January 4th, 2002, 07:42 PM

I haven't read the entire thread so please excuse me if this was addressed earlier...

In SEIII if you put more points than needed toward a research project, they would carry over to the next level. It was possible to put, say, 100,000 points, toward a 10,000 point tech area and keep getting the next level each turn, until the points ran out. That was done away with in SEIV.

Is that what you are talking about? Just curious.

Suicide Junkie · #53 January 4th, 2002, 08:02 PM

A neat quirk of SE4:
1) put 50,000 points into a project that costs more than that.
2) Steal/Analyse/Trade for the tech you're working on (from step 1)
3) Your 50,000 points will have carried over to the next level!

In this way, you could have two empires researching the same tech area, leapfrogging over each other, and getting the full value of their combined output!
Useful areas to try it on would be Stellar Manip, planet usage, ship con, propulsion, crystalline weapons.

Lastseer · #54 January 4th, 2002, 09:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Kimball:
I haven't read the entire thread so please excuse me if this was addressed earlier...

In SEIII if you put more points than needed toward a research project, they would carry over to the next level. It was possible to put, say, 100,000 points, toward a 10,000 point tech area and keep getting the next level each turn, until the points ran out. That was done away with in SEIV.

Is that what you are talking about? Just curious.

Acutally no. Right now say you are playing a high initial resource game (100k) or that you have even editted the configuration file to make this number larger, say 500k. If you do this, you must put at least that many points of research projects in the queue on your first turn or the remainder is lost. If you only put propulsion I (20k, I think) and physics (50k) in the queue. You'd get those techs and lose 430k research points.

If those research points stayed with you as if you had a research storage facility with infinite capacity (I tried giving this to all research facilities, but the ability doesn't exist for this resource type). You could spend the extras on propulsion II and physics II next turn and so on.

With this implementation every empire could start with 9 or 10 drastically different techs early in the game. (As opposed to everyone having just onle level in the mostly the same techs for a high resource start).

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

geoschmo · #55 January 4th, 2002, 09:56 PM

Would be nice. There is currently no way to edit the resource start level. You only have the low (5000), medium (20K) and high (100K) options in the game setup screens. And no way to store research points, as you found. These would require hardcode changes. If we could get these, maybe we could just get the ability to have starting tech levels.

If you read the whole thread we have talked about making a starting tech mod that uses racial points. It would require extensive changes to the data files though. SJ (I think it was SJ) offered to make a program to help with the modifications, but he must ahve got tied up on some other projects cause I haven't heard anything else from him. I guess I could do it by hand. If I start now I could probably have it ready by Christmas.

As an alternative, I suppose you could have a 10 planet start. This would give you a ton of research points. You could agree among you to only build anything on one planet and then after X number of turns abandon all the rest. This would simulate your idea without too much in the way of modifications. You would have to change the settings.txt file to allow you to abandon a fully populated planet, or build cargo bases in orbit and transfer/jettison the population. And you'd have to trust the other players to do likewise.

Geoschmo

geoschmo · #56 January 4th, 2002, 10:00 PM

Ooo, I just thought of an easier way. You edit the facilities.txt file so that research facilities produce an obcene amount of research points at the start of the game. Then after X turns you swith back to normal data files. Start with one planet as normal. But those 5 research facilities on it could be pumpong out 20K or even more per turn each. Whatever you want.

Geoschmo

Lastseer · #57 January 4th, 2002, 10:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ooo, I just thought of an easier way. You edit the facilities.txt file so that research facilities produce an obcene amount of research points at the start of the game. Then after X turns you swith back to normal data files. Start with one planet as normal. But those 5 research facilities on it could be pumpong out 20K or even more per turn each. Whatever you want.

Geoschmo

I actually considered this and rejected it, because it gives more initial techs to those with advanced storage techniques (extra research facilities). Where as normally they'd only get a little extra in rate. [Actually I haven't verified this. Are the extra faicilites research or mineral? ]

However I have had no problem modifying the intial resource allocation in early verions of SEIV (haven't tried it in a while).

From what I understand the only code change required, would be to allow unused research points to accumulate. (Say for the first 5-10 turns, or with a 5% depreciation throughout the game). This should be a very minor code change and I've submitted it, but have not gotten a reply.

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

Lastseer · #58 January 4th, 2002, 10:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Would be nice. There is currently no way to edit the resource start level. You only have the low (5000), medium (20K) and high (100K) options in the game setup screens. And no way to store research points, as you found. These would require hardcode changes. If we could get these, maybe we could just get the ability to have starting tech levels.
Geoschmo

I agree that storage would require a code change. But this should be extremely minor (as other resources already work this way).
It would also be nice to have the starting resources be changeable the same way maximum units in space are configurable from the start screen. However this can be editted easily through a configuration file.

quote:
geoschmo:
If you read the whole thread we have talked about making a starting tech mod that uses racial points. It would require extensive changes to the data files though. SJ (I think it was SJ) offered to make a program to help with the modifications, but he must ahve got tied up on some other projects cause I haven't heard anything else from him. I guess I could do it by hand. If I start now I could probably have it ready by Christmas.

I've been following this thread since it started. Without a code change, it becomes unduly complicated to work around the existing limitations.

quote:
geoschmo:
As an alternative, I suppose you could have a 10 planet start. This would give you a ton of research points. You could agree among you to only build anything on one planet and then after X number of turns abandon all the rest. This would simulate your idea without too much in the way of modifications. You would have to change the settings.txt file to allow you to abandon a fully populated planet, or build cargo bases in orbit and transfer/jettison the population. And you'd have to trust the other players to do likewise.

I don't think you could get the AI to do that.

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

geoschmo · #59 January 4th, 2002, 10:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lastseer:

I actually considered this and rejected it, because it gives more initial techs to those with advanced storage techniques (extra research facilities). Where as normally they'd only get a little extra in rate.

Actually, I don't think this is the case. IIRC the extra homeworld facilities for the advanced storage guys would all be mineral miners. Although I suppose it would be fairly easy for them to simply scrap some mineral miners and build some research fac's You could make the research fac's VERY expensive though to eliminate this. Then when you go back to stock files all will be as it should be. The only problem is that you wouldn't be building research fac's on your new colonies until the accelerated period is over. Dont' know if that's a huge deal for you or not. Guess it would depend on how long you want the fast period to Last.

quote:
However I have had no problem modifying the intial resource allocation in early verions of SEIV (haven't tried it in a while).

Huh?

quote:
From what I understand the only code change required, would be to allow unused research points to accumulate. (Say for the first 5-10 turns, or with a 5% depreciation throughout the game). This should be a very minor code change and I've submitted it, but have not gotten a reply.

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Lastseer ]

Good luck with that. I have no idea how easy or hard a change like that would be. I am always trying to find ways to do things without asking for hard code changes. Just a quirk of mine I guess.

For that matter it may not even be an issue of difficulty. He may just not want to do that. Research and intel points are more intangible assets. He may not agree that you should be able to store them up.

But it can't hurt to ask I suppose.

Geo

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Kimball · #60 January 5th, 2002, 04:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ooo, I just thought of an easier way. You edit the facilities.txt file so that research facilities produce an obcene amount of research points at the start of the game. Then after X turns you swith back to normal data files. Start with one planet as normal. But those 5 research facilities on it could be pumpong out 20K or even more per turn each. Whatever you want.

Geoschmo

Isn't there some sort of "anti-cheat" that would prevent this. I would think that if you could edit the facilities.txt (or components.txt file for that matter) cheating during multiplayer games would be VERY easy.

I could allow my seeking parasites to do 1000 points of damage at a distance of 20 during my turn when I attack, while yours would only do 100 at 16 during your turn when you attack. Does that make sense?