Nations under CBM 1.6

[thejeff]

Except that much of Baalz's guide is focused on Fever Fetishes that don't exist any more.

And I believe the Hunters have been dropped in price, which counters much of his argument against them.

Not to say his expansion tactics won't still work, though the mid/late game changes drastically without fetishes, but the other changes may make Black Hunters viable.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by statttis

I'm in the midst of a CBM 1.6 game playing as Machaka, and they are in no way weak. Early on the hunter spiders are amazing. 4-5 of them can take most indies without losses, no bless required. Mid game is strong as you said. With the nerf to astral magic, in the late game your nature and death magic keep you competitive.

Ahmm, finding a solution to take indies doesn't make a nation viable. I found an easy and cheap solution to take indies with EA Agartha and got royally kicked by human opponents (in a RAND game - I'd never take Agartha of my free will )

And 4-5 of them cost 320-400 gold and are not cheap on resources. At the same price you can take 10-13 regular spider riders that will also take most indies easily and w/o losses. You don't need bless for them so your pretender can take SC/Rainbow/Sage duty instead.

[Mardagg]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

"It looks to me,that those Hunter spider sacreds are now very much affordable.They make sick good,and i mean really sick good, expansion parties for the early game"
Did you read Baalz Machaka guide?- He presents a different approach and is quite convincing at that.

That guide is very well written,but he was using older CBM versions.
He was looking at (overpriced) 125g Hunter spiders,we are looking at 80g Hunter spiders.

[WraithLord]

Yes, 80 gold hunter spider are more viable but I still think taking a strong bless with Machaka just for them is a big mistake.

My experience with 1.6 CBM Machaka shows them to be weak when facing human opponents who know what they're doing. They are not Agartha level weak but they are not ok or good either.

[Mardagg]

[quote=WraithLord;724920

And 4-5 of them cost 320-400 gold and are not cheap on resources. At the same price you can take 10-13 regular spider riders that will also take most indies easily and w/o losses. You don't need bless for them so your pretender can take SC/Rainbow/Sage duty instead.[/QUOTE]

try E9N4 Hunter spiders.
The real difference,besides getting a lot less afflictions and much longer life span on the rider: Regen on your Spider,after the rider died.
Thats a respectable force still in midgame imo+on a power per upkeep scale,the sacred hunters are now much better investment longterm,even though you are a bit limited with your pretender choice(imprisoned for good scales) imo.
I wouldnt rely on the hunters without a blessing,though.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Did you read Baalz Machaka guide?- He presents a different approach and is quite convincing at that.

Baalz' excellent guide on Machaka is mostly about Fever Fetishes, and how to use the cheaper spiders until you have enough Fever Fetishes to have a proper fire-gem income. Fever Fetish is a unique item in CBM 1.6, so that is not possible anymore, and thus the basis for that guide has gone to where the dodos are.

[statttis]

no bless required

Seriously, no bless is needed on your hunter spiders. You can use them for fast expansion and still have your awake SC or rainbow pretender.

At the same price you can take 10-13 regular spider riders

It's been my experience that 4-5 hunter spiders are more effective and last longer than the equivalent cost of regular spiders.

[Sombre]

I can't see why people wouldn't want to take a couple of minor blesses on the hunters. With that they are definitely more durable than spider riders, though they become obsolete more quickly.

[thejeff]

Just thinking out loud here:
E9N4 may be good, but it's still oddly mixed. E9 is great for the Riders, but the N4 is largely wasted on them, though the drop in afflictions is always good. N4+ is nice regen for the Spiders, but they don't get much from E9. Your mages aren't sacred, so the E bless doesn't help there.
Plus you've got both paths already on national mages.

How about an Astral bless? That covers your main magic lack, getting you rings and late-game spells. Any MR boost is invaluable for the Spiders, if you go to S9, Twist Fate will help the Riders, since they're low hp.
Maybe add another minor bless if you want something else on the pretender.

[statttis]

@Sombre
That's exactly what I did, though I didn't bother blessing them for fighting indies. I didn't want to waste recruitment turns at my capital buying priests. When I started fighting other players the minor bless became very useful.

With E4/N4 the riderless spiders have some nice regen and don't gain fatigue.