Mod: New Nation: Dragons, Magic Incarnate V1.01

[Gregstrom]

I've tried downloading from the top post, but it looks just like the old version. Am I doing something wrong?

[Aezeal]

hmm well not that much is changed.. mostly just the summon costs and a few small adjustments... the one in that post IS the new one though.

What more should I change about it, what do you want to look differently from the old one?

[Gregstrom]

I've solved my problem - it was something to do with the way Dom3 handles updating mod files, I think.

The new costs on the summons are rather more fair I think. You can't just spam out Magma Dragons as excellent battle mages (and/or respectable thugs) to nearly the same extent as before. The other dragons of the tier will be pretty rare summons at 40 gems each.

The recosting on the pretender choices hasn't changed my preference. The advantage of the Ivy Dragon chassis is that 1: it has nature, which is a natural bless choice, and 2: it pays less for additional paths than the other two chassis that have magical paths. It makes it a more effective choice than the rest, unless you want a magicless thug for some reason.

If the three dragons with magic all paid 40 for extra paths, I'd be more inclined to choose between them according to what sort of bless/summons I wanted to use. With the Ivy dragon being cheaper, it becomes the default choice.

[Aezeal]

hmmm might change that later.. I wanted the ivy dragon to be somewhat more of a rainbow mage since it's the only one of it's tier with 2 paths.. the adamantine was more meant as a SC and the other in between... due to them all being dragon it might mean they can all be used as decent enough SC so the magic is much more important.

If you'd want to bless nature would be the prime choice, maybe with water if you'd overdo it , but since blesses are mostly for single summons later in the game it's probably better to go scales.. both paths would be viable though which was my intention.. I just usually prefer to play on the early game more than set up for late game and hope to reach it through a difficult early game

[Gregstrom]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

hmmm might change that later.. I wanted the ivy dragon to be somewhat more of a rainbow mage since it's the only one of it's tier with 2 paths.. the adamantine was more meant as a SC and the other in between... due to them all being dragon it might mean they can all be used as decent enough SC so the magic is much more important.

I see them all as being strong thugs. They aren't quite SC material because they don't have full slots, and although the Adamantine Dragon is pretty nifty in a fight he doesn't have the Wyrm's 16 hp of regen. I wouldn't trust him to do as good a job as a Wyrm because of that.

The other dragons worried me more in combat, although it's possible the Ivy Dragon could do quite well with its poison aura and spikes, as well as better Fear if it adds a couple of levels of Death and of course the potential to cast Personal Regeneration.

Originally Posted by Aezeal

If you'd want to bless nature would be the prime choice, maybe with water if you'd overdo it , but since blesses are mostly for single summons later in the game it's probably better to go scales.. both paths would be viable though which was my intention.. I just usually prefer to play on the early game more than set up for late game and hope to reach it through a difficult early game

That was another plus point for the Ivy Dragon - a N4 bless was all of 48 points, and probably worth as much overall as an extra scale.

Why not add a Stargazer Avatar chassis for a rainbow mage choice? Add some flavour text about it having newly attained Stargazer form, reduce its stats a little from standard maybe, and have a 20 point new path cost. Leave the other magical dragons at 40 points for a new path and I think the range of choices would be more varied.

Another small question: How come fire breath has no AoE? At the moment I'm ignoring the option of Fire orders for the red dragons because it seems less effective than either melee or spellcasting. It may have good AP damage, but the accuracy isn't great and shields will stop it handily. I guess it doesn't shout out 'Dragonfire!!!' to me.

[Aezeal]

#newweapon 753
#name "Fire Breath"
#dmg 15
#nostr
#att 0
#def 0
#AoE 4
#range 30
#ammo 15
#armorpiercing
#fire
#sound 16
#explspr 10113
#flyspr 133 4
#bonus
#magic
#end

it should have an AOE 4, I copied it directly out of the mod...

[Gregstrom]

Hmm. It didn't give an AoE in the fire breath description, as it does for the vanilla dragon pretender. I therefore assumed it had no AoE and ignored it. I spy some testing coming along.

Hmm... I guess I could have posted this before testing. However, I can report that they have no AoE. Firing against a squad of militia, even direct hits against a full square damaged one unit at most. Several times no damage at all was dealt, implying that the fire bolt was parried by shields.

[Gregstrom]

Extra note:

After some further testing and comparison with other mods, I have your answer.

rather than '#AoE 4', you need to be typing '#aoe4'. I'm not certain the space absolutely has to be left out (it seems to work either way), but I am certain that case sensitivity is an issue.

[Gregstrom]

Okay, I've tested with the correct AoE breath weapon. The red dragons are now 250 gold thugs who can clear nearly any indie province (including barbarians and heavy cavalry) without breaking a sweat.

I suspect this may be considered overpowered. AoE 4 may be okay for the Magma Dragons and upwards, as they're costly summons. For a non-capital recruit it's probably a little too much. Perhaps a different weapon for the lower-end dragons (and perhaps pretender, unless you like the fire dragon pretender as an early SC) with either AoE 1-2 or less damage?


Edit: Heh - I'm finding this an entertaining use of spare time. It brings back the 3years I spent doing this as a paying job.

[Aezeal]

hmm case sensitivity.. never heard that before in the mods... I'm pretty sure it's not the space though. I put a space after every other command (and it's like that in the manual too) so case could be it.

I'll have to admit that clearing 4 tiles of indies without breaking a sweat might indeed be a bit too strong. I know catoblepas have an aoe 5 attack but mot much have that good attacks... maybe I' should lower damage a bit too

nice you are enjoying it since I love to get feedback once you are done with this the whole dom3k mod is a much bigger project (bothfor me and you if you decide to go test it )