Tartarians in 3.17

calmon · #1 May 29th, 2008, 05:22 AM

Well i don't think 25% (not growing!) insanity helps much against the dominance of the tartarians in late game.

Isn't it possible to stop healing the undeads via chalice and gift of health? This would hurt them and its also thematic.
I can't believe the chalice was created to mainly heal undead afflictions!

I would also modify gift of reason. You could split the spell into different spells which effect only one (or 2) size category. So GoR a human (size 2) could cost 10-20 gems and a size 6 unit cost more like 30-60.

llamabeast · #2 May 29th, 2008, 05:31 AM

I think modifying the Chalice and GoH sounds like a very good idea. I would leave GoR though. For most purposes GoR is already expensive at 20 gems.

Cipher · #3 May 29th, 2008, 06:58 AM

Some of your main SC will be insane in critical battle, it might influence the whole war, in my opinion.

fantasma · #4 May 29th, 2008, 07:07 AM

What I really do not understand is why they are so cheap to summon? Even a crusher cost 15 gems. I know, the requirements are much lower, but still...

Endoperez · #5 May 29th, 2008, 07:54 AM

One quarter of your SCs being unavailable any given turn seemed very harsh for me. Your raiders can be caught without teleporting, and the casters who protect your armies with gem-expensive spells will force your whole army to stop when they go insane. If they stay behind with Flying Boots to fly back to the army, teleporters or Mind Hunters can kill them.

I haven't been on the receiving end a tartarian spam, but the insanity should make them much less useful.

Twan · #6 May 29th, 2008, 08:17 AM

I think the change is fine as it is, I'd happily trade 5 tartarians with 25% insanity for one reliable elemental royal.

Tartarians will only continue to be the most popular chassis in endgame because there is no other cost effective *non unique* choice. As soon some cost effective level 9 summons of *non unique* SCs *with magic if you gor them and more than 2 item slots* will be added I'm sure tartarians with insanities won't remain the most popular, even if they cost 10 gems and the others 2 or 3 times more.

The other option : making all SC summons *not* cost effective would be a very bad idea for the game, as hordes of SCs are needed to do anything once endgame spells are researched.

SCs don't dominate endgame, they are just the main counter to the battlefield magic dominating it.

Saxon · #7 May 30th, 2008, 04:26 AM

Good point. This will encourage people to push Tarts into the field quickly. You don�t want to keep them in your back yard, so get them out into your enemies. �Oh, you pillaged the province you just captured? Oh well.� A more aggressive end game perhaps.

However, it will weaken them overall, as people who keep some in labs to cover the magic paths they did not have will now be running a higher risk. It will focus them as SC, rather than SC with possibilities in magic. Combine that with the direct reduction in usefulness of 25%, the losses due to insane orders that damage, the uncertainty cost of when it will strike and their overall value is going to decline a fair bit.

Let us see how it actually plays out.

Zeldor · #8 May 30th, 2008, 04:32 AM

They won't change your order in the coming turn. But later yeah. Too bad you cannot start a new temple construction when you see your tartarian with 'destroy temple' order.

Many of that things are not extremely bad when on enemy territory. Still best SCs for the money. A bit less useful in defence, but that's not their main role.