Opinions on Caelum (MA and other)

[Kuritza]

Xietor said:
Temple guards with a water bless are capable infantry-trust me.

Huge resource cost, capitol-only. Not serious, capitol resources are better spent on wingless.

[Saint_Dude]

I am not arguing that Caelum is under-powered.

But. . .

While the temple guards are indeed capable, they are not that exceptional compared with other sacreds. And they are very resource intensive so are hard to accumulate in large numbers.

The wingless, are really pretty poor. However, when mixed with mammoths they are very effective due to the boost they provide to squad moral. I don't take this as an indication that they are a good unit. Their only role is to facilitate a cheesy exploit (which should probably be closed).

The flying infantry are simply a waste of resources.

The mammoths are very powerful in the early game. But playing a mammoth rush is not that different from playing the monkeys or arco. I would find Caelum much more interesting if they did not have mammoths and instead had more capable fliers.

[Meglobob]

Only Caelum has Mammoths don't they? So strip Caelum of them and no mammoths... Do you want to make the mammoth extinct, have you never watched ice age, how could you make them extinct again...

Rocks, rocks?!?!? Come on guys, how could they fly carrying a load of heavy rocks!?!? They use ice lances/ice blades because they are lighter then steel/iron presumably.

Personally if its not broken don't fix it and isn't Caelum ok as is?

Although alot of people seem to want to improve the caelum flying infantry which would be good but as already been said the problem lies with flying/fatigue. They fly in, lose formation and become easy targets. Its the losing formation and being open to multiple attacks that makes them weak. Not there stats.

[Xietor]

Flying infantry is NOT a waste of resources.

1.They have magical weapons, and they are effective against a solo thug taking their provinces.

2. They are great siege units with their flying bonus

3. They are effective when set to attack archers or rearmost enemies or large enemy monsters or flying units.

4. When storming a castle, and set to attack archers, they get into the heart of the besieged armies casters and divert the spell casters so that your better ground troops can get through the gate without suffering devasting barages of spells.

Caelum is fine as is if the Elephant exploit is fixed.

[Endoperez]

Xietor said:
Flying infantry is NOT a waste of resources.

1.They have magical weapons, and they are effective against a solo thug taking their provinces.

2. They are great siege units with their flying bonus

3. They are effective when set to attack archers or rearmost enemies or large enemy monsters or flying units.

4. When storming a castle, and set to attack archers, they get into the heart of the besieged armies casters and divert the spell casters so that your better ground troops can get through the gate without suffering devasting barages of spells.

Caelum is fine as is if the Elephant exploit is fixed.

However, the flying infantry isn't infantry. Caricature: they're an advanced siege engine that can also be used against archers and thugs, although it isn't nearly as efficient.

[quantum_mechani]

Xietor said:

So what if they can cast falling frost? How does that help when your ground troops are slow and are being slaughtered by longbows or composite bows, which are out of range of falling frost? Many maps have very few water provinces so moving on to land is essential EARLY in the game.

Every race has some possible solutions. MA Atlantis can cast water elementals in battle etc. But you have to be highly skilled imho to beat another player of decent skill when you are playing ma atlantis.

And early in the game, MA Oceania cavalry and infantry are quite good against most land races' units.

I would consider MA Atlantis much superior to Oceania on a low water maps. The effectiveness of the troops doesn't carry you for that long, and it won't be long before the almost compete dearth of battle magic makes your armies pushovers for almost anyone else.

[Kuritza]

1.They have magical weapons, and they are effective against a solo thug taking their provinces.

Are they? I wonder how many Iceclads will be killed by a properly equipped bane lord. Probably as many as needed - sometimes a simple vine shield works wonders.

3. They are effective when set to attack archers or rearmost enemies or large enemy monsters or flying units.

How come? With so-so combat stats, with no formation bonus, they just attack, suffer losses and rout. May be used as a diversion, and thats it.

Caelum is fine as is if the Elephant exploit is fixed.

Karthage must be destroyed.

[HoneyBadger]

It's not a bad idea, RamsHead. I wasn't thinking that they'd be carrying a large amount of rocks though, just small bags of round pebbles to either release en-masse over a target (sort of a shotgun effect) at great height, or throw. Otherwise, they'd be naked.

Another idea would be to have them just drop chunks of ice, which would be hard enough for impact, from a few hundred feet in the air, and also shatter, causing spray.

Ceramic would work for this, glass would work-both to somewhat greater effect, especially if they were hollow and contained, say, poison caltrops or even ashes mixed with water (to get into the eyes), but ice would be far and away more available and more economical-infact, you could freeze all sorts of nasty things inside balls of ice-gravel would be easy, functioning as buckshot-or poison the ice itself, since sharp objects impacting on targets at great height provide an excellent means of injection, or both.

The ice could come in the form of iceballs, or just icesickles-which should come down straight, pointy end first, or else spin in the air, which is almost as good.

Even pouring water over a target would be effective, I would think, combined with Caelum's lightning spells, or a chilly day.

[Meglobob]

HoneyBadger said:

Another idea would be to have them just drop chunks of ice, which would be hard enough for impact, from a few hundred feet in the air, and also shatter, causing spray.

The ice could come in the form of iceballs, or just icesickles-which should come down straight, pointy end first, or else spin in the air, which is almost as good.

I think you are describing ice strike here, Honey...

[DrPraetorious]

They could carry ice javelins. If they were magic weapons, that'd make their infantry quite fearsome, against opponents who depend on shields.