Mod: Urdheim, The Infinite Horde

[Shovah32]

Hey Amos, havn't seen you around here lately .

I agree with you on the sprites - very nice.

[Sombre]

There's been some chatter bout this mod recently over the forums and in the IRC channel and the consensus is that they are pretty heavily overpowered. Not crazy can't be beat overpowered, but probably stronger than any of the dom3 vanilla nations.

Now I haven't looked into this fully, but the main areas of concern appear to be the pretenders (not so much the immobile one though) and the troops that summon allies. Summoning is a very powerful ability and hard to balance - I've made summoning units that were far too strong before myself. If you're still around, Saulot, I think I can round up comments from various people about the balance and make some more detailed suggestions at a later date. Everyone does seem to agree that they're a very interesting and cool nation, just with a pretty major balance problem.

[jutetrea]

Still my favorite mod nation so far.

Sombre are the discussions more about the remote summon spells or the unit summons of light infantry?

I could see the remote summoning spells being considered a bit overpowered, very cheap "call of the wild" type thing. I don't really see how the unit summons are that overpowering, they NEED a high quantity of troops.

On the other hand, I haven't truly played them as a low gold summoning force yet, so I could just be talking out the wazoo.

[Sombre]

It was the troop summons and the spell summons if I recall. When I tested them the summoning of basic infantry was very powerful - with even just a handful of leaders doing it you could work up a pretty crazy force and over time it just gets bigger and bigger, all with very little in terms of cost. Also, the kobolds themselves aren't actually very weak, when they get stuff like the doubleshot - I mean they aren't elites or anything but I really wouldn't consider them as swarming chaff.

In the next few days I'll get a bit more feedback on the balance and do some testing of my own. They are certainly a nation that could be balanced without scrapping and units or concepts or anything, but they do appear to be a ways off vanilla power as it stands.

I'm realising that I honestly haven't tested them enough right now to call them overpowered for sure, I just thought it was only fair to bring up the gist of what I'd heard in this thread. Saulot said he was concerned about balance (which is a very good thing), so I'd love to help him out.

The lich dragon pretender is too strong though, that I can say for sure ;]

[Amos]

I believe that most of the vanilla nations are underpowered. When I play them I always fill like I should be correcting their balance upward.

Hey Amos, havn't seen you around here lately .

Hey Shovah. Been crazy busy. Hadnt had time for Dom.

[Sombre]

Power is relative. If 20 nations are underpowered and 3 are overpowered, it makes far more sense to reduce the power of the 3 than increase the power of the 20.

This is something I don't get about people who rail against 'nerfing' and actually say that more units should be like the overpowered ones. If more units were like them, they wouldn't be overpowered any more and you probably wouldn't like them. It's all relative.

[Saulot]

Well, I realized last week that it's been 6 months since I last worked on Urdheim. Regardless why it happened, I find that dissapointing, as the state I left Urdheim in is a bit embarrassing. I'm aware of how some elements are unbalanced, and I plan on continuing to balance and polish the nation until it shines. In that vein, I release this weeks' step towards that goal, V.40. Hopefully I'll receive sufficient feedback on how to improve balance and allow not just enjoyable singleplayer but multiplayer experience as well. The file is as usual, at the beginning of the thread. Thank you for reading, and sorry for the delay.

Changes from v.30 to v.40:

Ancient Dracolich HP from 160 to 125
Ancient Dracolich loses poisoncloud
Ancient Dracolich loses Plague Breath
Ancient Dracolich pathcost from 50 to 80
Scion of Glaurung goldcost from 380 to 400
Scion of Sirrush siegebonus from 15 to 20
Scion of Sirrush goldcost from 440 to 500
Kobold Summoner goldcost from 280 to 300
Kobold Warchief loses Lt. Infantry Autosummon5
Kobold Warchief gains Med. Infantry Autosummon1
Kobold Warchief goldcost from 160 to 140
Guide Kobold Band gemcost from 10 to 12
Guide Kobold Horde gemcost from 15 to 18
Enliven Ancient Gargoyle gemcost from 16 to 20
Ambush effect reduced from 18+ to 16+
Flamecast AOE from 5+ to 4+
Trigger Fire Trap fatiguecost from 20 to 30
Master Summoner goldcost from 560 to 600
Magma Drake goldcost from 60 to 75
Net Trap fixed (does not dissapear when a weapon is equipped)
Net Trap improved (now includes 20 stun damage instead of AN 1 damage)
Vicious Blades Trap fixed (does not dissapear when a weapon is equipped)

[Saulot]

This last round of changes includes a few significant ones, which should shift the balance to where it's supposed to be (for all those who thought Urdheim was overpowered), and I'm pleased enough to say that it's no longer a beta. Anyway, this should be the last update for quite a while.

If anyone still has any balance criticisms, or pretender/hero ideas, I'm still all ears.

For those who enjoy Urdheim, I've resumed work on that project I started back in July, and I should have a teaser ready this weekend or the next one.

Changes from v.40 to v.50:

Castigation of Sirrush NOE from 2 to 1, and fatiguecost from 20 to 50
Castigation of Sirrush loses MR easily negates, and now has secondary effect "Confusion"
Summon Cursed researchlevel from 5 to 6
Gather Cursed researchlevel from 5 to 6
Return Ancestor researchlevel from 6 to 5
Cursed gained darkpower 1
Fixed "Trap the Soul"
Fixed Darkvision
Scions now have 100% darkvision
Miners now have 75% darkvision
Kobold Warchief now has patrolbonus 8
Draconic Might now has BF effect, fatiguecost from 25 to 50, and researchlevel from 3 to 5
Draconic Spirit now has BF effect, fatiguecost from 50 to 60, and researchlevel from 5 to 6
Blessed One now has #onebattlespell "Holy Avenger"
Scion of Abraxas now has #onebattlespell "Air Shield"
Kobold Evoker now has #onebattlespell "Summon Earthpower"
Kobold Evoker goldcost from 170 to 420 (for upkeep purposes)
Kobold Strider now has #onebattlespell "Twist Fate"
Kobold Strider loses Med. Infantry Autosummon5
Kobold Strider gains Med. Infantry Autosummon1
Kobold Strider gains Med. Infantry Makemonster2
Kobold Strider now has 200 goldcost (for upkeep purposes)
Almost all basic Kobold units base encumbrance from 3 to 4

[Saulot]

Well, after two months of silence, I have to poke the community and ask again, is the balance finally good?

This is an important consideration, as I'm working on some other mods, and my tendencies will likely come into effect in the other creations.

Furthermore, if you like Urdheim, player testimonials motivate me to work faster on other mods.

I'll likely revisit Urdheim in the summer. With the possibility of doing a Middle era version still on the table.

[Kristoffer O]

Hi, it was a while since I tried it. I don't think it was finished at that time, but I liked it. I do not remember what I thought about balance at the time, but they might have been strong back then.

I haven't tried any mods recently, since I've been caught up in the making of Gath etc