Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6

[BigDaddy]

100 attacks would still only clear out one square.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by BigDaddy

100 attacks would still only clear out one square.

Yes, but at that point you might as well call them the SC Slayer-3000 since they'll kill absolutely anything in that square!

[Snowcat]

I think It's pretty clear that all (LA) Jomon samurais/soldiers should be made a bit better/cheaper instead of making the Jomon archer worse (in order to achieve that archers arent over-used).

I think even minor and simple changes to their stats, prices or resource costs would end the whole fuss over Jomon being not at par with the other nations.
I hold a similar opinion about Gath, Oceania and a few other nations which a number of people consider under/overpowered.

And the Jomon archer should have at least the same precision than other samurais. Archers with worse aiming than soldiers is just plain wrong.

[Festin]

Jomon's problems are not caused by bad troop selection. In fact, they have excellent infantry (Aka-Oni samurai). The problem is far more complex and no tweaks to the samurai will ever solve it.

That said, I fully agree the generic samurai and samurai archers should have more reasonable stats.

[Trumanator]

A larger problem for Jomon is the inexcusable lack of shields in a Xbow heavy era.

[Sombre]

They have a whole boatload of problems, not one big one.

[Ink]

Originally Posted by Festin

Jomon's problems are not caused by bad troop selection. In fact, they have excellent infantry (Aka-Oni samurai). The problem is far more complex and no tweaks to the samurai will ever solve it.

That said, I fully agree the generic samurai and samurai archers should have more reasonable stats.

I wouldn't characterize it like that: because what? it's too complex to describe or hold in the mind? this is a controlled and unbiased game world here, not art or zen.

for most issues in dominions, the line between high-powered and good and complete garbage is stuff like one extra pick of Astral on some mage or two less encumbrance on some unit.

I'm confident Jomon could be brought on par with other nations with some polishing.

[llamabeast]

I think he was just saying that even with good samurai, Jomon would be poor. For instance, perhaps they need better magic.

[Zeldor]

llamabeast:

How is your late game summons mod? It'd be nice to be able to use it in some games, even if it's not 100% finished.

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by llamabeast

I think he was just saying that even with good samurai, Jomon would be poor. For instance, perhaps they need better magic.

The funny part is, Jomon even has good magic. It's just underwater and super-expensive(Ryujin are for the record absurdly expensive for what they are). And their normal mages are mapmove 1, which frankly doesn't even make sense.

Jomon has all the tools it needs, it just isn't at the right place at the right time.

For instance, they get the ability to bootstrap Death from nothing. Unfortunately you need a swamp, a lucky double random, and Conj-6 Const-6 before you can do anything worthwhile with it(I guess you could spring for a Robe of Water or something, but that's even more in the Water-gem hole). Nushi would be awesome at Conj-4 with 2 death instead of 1(to immediately start summoning Shura).

Similarly, Jomon's national dragon summon is awesome in concept but absolutely terrible in practice. One misc slot, lowish protection(especially in LA), poor magic, and low native offensive skills make these things just plain useless. Now, that could easily be changed to give them some more offensive flexibility.

Jomon as is has a lot of issues, but they also have many ways of tweaking those issues. Their recruitable mages should probably retain the same magic(though Ryujin and Monks of the Fivefold Path need at least price decreases), and their magic paths can be boosted up with summons.