AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

What QB posted is basically right on, in regards to AI Minesweeping.
In addition, with AI Campaign the larger the fleet, the less likely the AI will desire a minesweeper to be part of the composition for escort.

About, what turn where you in when the AI blew thru your Minefield. Do you recall the largest ships, was it made-up with any CVs and how large was the fleet?

Thanks for the input Mottlee, I will take a look at tweaking the AI Minesweeping for AIC v4.0

[ September 05, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
Before you restart your game, Mottlee.
The way I understand the AI in AIC, it does not need just mine sweepers to clear a minefield.

Early in the game the AI takes high losses to mines. As the game turns pass the AI will research larger ships, the larger the ship when it is combined in a fleet the easer it is for it to clear the minefields, CVs have a extra bonus in clearing mines as well in AIC

None of the ships have MS comp on them and there was no damage

Emailed game and plr files

[ September 05, 2003, 23:59: Message edited by: mottlee ]

[JLS]

Thanks Mottlee, I will load it first thing in the mourning...

[ September 06, 2003, 00:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

posted June 09, 2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI for new AIC players. Regarding Minefields

Yes, most AI Players will blow thru a 100 Minefield with a large fleet �.

About when the AI Player starts fleeting Light Cruisers especially Carriers, you can expect the AI to clear Minefields 100%, when fleeted with a CV and escorts vessels . Just like, you would expect a good and capable Human Player opponent would.

That is not to say, the AI will not make mistakes or loose many a good ship; Scouting, or a few Capital ships returning to or from a yard or refuel base (as a Human player may)

===

Please keep this in mind; the higher the Computer Bonus the faster the AI will fleet Cruisers and Carriers. When this happens the less effective your minefields will become.

============================
EDIT:

Expected AI Minesweeping resuts when fleeted for AIC: v4.00.

100+ Scouts (will blow thru a 100 Minefield)
46+ Escorts
46+ Frigates
DD 20
CL 10
CA 4+
BC 3
BB 2+
DN 2
BS 1
Hvy BS 1
---
CVL 2+
CV 1+
Hvy CV 1
======================
Basicly 10 AI Destroyers and 6 AI Light Cruisers will clear 100 mines without with out a minesweeper.

This will be about a 50% decrease on CL and below. and 20% to 33% decrease for Cruiser and above.
======================
Please note in AIC v4.0 > The Human Players will now have the ability to destroy mines with Fighter Carriers.
In addition, for all Human Players: Minefields will have NO effect on any BaseShip, Heavy BaseShip or Heavy Carrier class vessel.

Scaled to the respective ships displacements; Dreadnoughts, Battleships, and Battle Cruisers will require MORE mines to damage or destroy them.

Good work and thanks for your continued help with the mines in AIC >Mottlee.

[ September 06, 2003, 12:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PsychoTechFreak]

Originally posted by JLS:
PTF if practical, can you humor me and try the EVENTS test for the Homeworld one more time, with opposite play style and one Home World, basically as below.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.

In other words can you try this in Simultaneous mode one HW.

Then a test in standard move with one HW.

This is only to test that some players have seen HW events and other have NEVER seen any, yet the default Events, settings and facilities file is the same with all players (use of Default files is assumed)

GLV and I always play Simultaneous mode and do not recall ever seeing any Human Player HW event that?s a lot of hours of play, with no recall of an HW event, how about anybody else?

---

All right, I am going to set up a some hundred years batch sim with the 3.02 file today. Standart turn test would be very hard, because at least every single event stops the turn flow, and every single event has to be saved or noted. I think it should not make a difference, but let's see what happens in simultaneous first.

I certainly remember that Fate Shrine' reduction of events chance has been asserted to be fixed in 1.84. It would also fix lucky/cursed trait, I think.

Yes, my memory is lacking about that. So it obviously has taken some more weeks than I remember.

[oleg]

As a test, I started a game with myself and one neutral AI. Events chance high. I did' do anything except building few ships. Few years in the game, AI' HW rebelled - here is a save game:
1062845567.zip

I saw AI' HW rebelled many, many times. With old file _very_ often, with a new file only very rare. I never had my HW rebelled though.

It is certain SE treats humans and AI HW differently. The disparity in events is just too obvious.

[JLS]

Oleg, what game mode style are you playing when you find the posted events?

Oleg, if you could play your next game, to include the Events v4.b1 and play in standard mode. This will be extremely helpful in comparing with the Event beta tests starting this weekend.

--------------------------------------
You may unzip this 41 kb Events file into your se4 Gold directory to update your AIC game.

EVENTS 4.1b just >L-CLICK< for download

====

I only ask that all default AIC files be used in conjunction with the Events v4.b1 for those who wish to contribute to this test.

Allthough the settings below will be changed with AIC v4.0 this is the v3.xx default all is going with.
Event Percent Chance Low := 10
Event Percent Chance Medium := 20
Event Percent Chance High := 40

So far, there are 5 tests.

4 in Simu mode and 1 in standard mod, they will attempt to log all events that are Directly or Indirectly effect the Human Player and to Highlight events that happen on there Homeworld or within there Home system�

In regards to the AI, I have the fix or (partial remedy) already and this will be out in AIC v4.0.
As not to influence the tests I will not release the details on the AI Events Fix.

[ September 06, 2003, 13:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

I am reluctant to invest into 300+ turn game with catastrophic events on - just too paranoid

But I had AI HW rebellions before in "normal" games with default files.

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
As a test, I started a game with myself and one neutral AI. Events chance high. I did' do anything except building few ships. Few years in the game, AI' HW rebelled

Originally posted by oleg:
I am reluctant to invest into 300+ turn game with catastrophic events on - just too paranoid
But I had AI HW rebellions before in "normal" games with default files.]

Oleg, I am unsure where you are going with this, or some of your text.

True I would be Paranoid if my Homeworld or any Human Players HW was lost but this was not the case or never has been. Is this not true � Oleg?

Is not the 4.b1 events file fine and working in the way it is intended; after all you did have the (((Events chance high)))?�

With our files now in the order as you suggested, does not the Max Severity options work as you stated, this is our impression?

Also the one AI home world that had this rebellion. What was its over all demise, did it defect to another Race or did it just mello out in time?

Are you using all the default and unmodified files AIC?
Now if you had the events with DEFAULT settings to low or medium and a Human Player lost his Homeworld to a bang; then yes I will be overly concerned. But this has not happened has it, a matter of fact the Human Player in his game play along oblivious to ANY other players wows, most of the time.

The key to the Random events is to insure the enjoyment of the Human Players, to overcome some evolving events. The AI feelings are irrelevant

Events that may occur to the AI players HW and actually the eyes of most Players like to see bad things happen to there opponents, in a game. Would you not agree?

The way AI Campaigns Event File was always programed: Is that the odds for ANY Planet or a System to be destroyed in AIC is by far deminished as opposed to Stock se4, and this is good, would you not agree Oleg?

This AI in AIC is tough enough to get thru Events as it is and as it was� and again, it is rare that one event will affect the same AI repeatedly.
Actually, most Players say the AI in AIC is very tough overall.

Furthermore, with all the proposed AI Rebellion remedies, it may lesson the total of new Independent Races spawned that enhances Human Player game Play, and this will not be a good thing - Oleg, would it?

John


[ September 06, 2003, 18:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Oleg, it would be very helpful if you would answer some of the question the Players and I have been asking you, here and through out the few Last dozen or so Posts in this thread, that are with respect to your statements, when you can find the time.

Please be part of the solution

Respectfully

John

[ September 06, 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: JLS ]