MP: Asia Twist - Wraithlord Wins!

[DonCorazon]

Thanks for hosting Pasha with your typical impeccable style and grace. I am honored to participate in your games.

Congrats Wraithlord, however you may have won. "All is fair in love and war". If someone did just hand you a VP, well, I personally would never do that since I think both from an RPG and a good sportsman perspective it makes no sense, but suppose there is nothing explicitly against it in the rules and some people do seem to like the idea of being vassals. The Don, however,always chooses to die on his feet, rather than live on his knees... and would hope others to do the same.

But you are quite a charmer I must say, perhaps a little thick with the flattery for my tastes but you seem to be quite effective with others. I called you out as being the one who'd win this game long ago (see thread somewhere a while back), but my own diplomatic energy was drained after Ashdod - I was too fatigued with PMs / coordination to take the lead again in another "alliance", and nobody heeded my warnings. Even still I tried to attack you in the spirit of trying to do what I could, but could see it was going to weaken the defense of my own VPs (even still I refused a formal NAP to hopefully keep you off guard). Thus ended the last offensive of the Pangean war machine.

Even while it was an epic game, I found this game helped crystallize a number of issues I have with certain game settings. Gem generator fatigue for one - I finally got sick of clams and bloodstones and just stopped making them.

Diplomacy for another - and in particular how it often means success can be most readily achieved by turtling/preying on the weak and waiting for others to fight the tough wars. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, and in fact it is known by many that the best way to win wars is never to fight a fair one. And I certainly did my best to make the war against Ashdod lopsided by bringing in anyone I could (but note everyone who fought the big A ultimately lost).

And this leaves something lacking to me in MP games. The most interesting fights are the balanced ones. Yet those are exactly the ones that help everyone else but the nations fighting. i am not sure what the answer is but it bothers me both as a player that relies on the strategy many times, and has been hurt when straying from it a few times. I think the answer is smaller maps / fewer players and/or RAND style games. Either that, or I just need to reserve more time for these diplomatically intense games and remind myself to let others fight the tough wars. I think I prefer the former though.

Another thing that kind of irritates me about Dominions is the undue influence certain indies can have on the game, but i suppose it makes each game interesting. It sure sucks when you don't find anything decent though. Jot's teleporting iron adepts mitigated my own horde of maenads from hostile action, since he could teleport in front of my armies, getting first cast defense advantage and splat my hordes with an RoS. That sucked.

I like the map, though i wish it had a little less movement limiting terrain.

Anyway, that's enough ramblings from a sleep-deprived new dad for now. Good game all, look forward to playing again some time.

[WraithLord]

@rdonj, I have seen what you describe happen many times over. Sometimes it was not one nation but 2-3 that did their best to crown someone. I was many times on the losing side of this and while it was frustrating at the moment. I just took this in good spirit and started thinking what the winner did better than me that I can improve - the answer was almost always the same: diplomacy. In past game I have experienced (and ultimately lost the game to) deceits, hidden trades, transfer of whole gem/item/gold inventory, forge whoring and what not.
Do I personally support this?- Well it is annoying I'll admit, from the noble perspective of everything must be a fair fight. However, I learned that in dominions, like in love, like in war, like in life its not all black and white and romanticized. In diplomacy game you'd always have to deal with this stuff as well. So for now I'm getting more fun out of RAND games but that doesn't say that diplo game are not fun - they just require different mind set to play and enjoy well.

@DonC, Thank you for the congrats. Coming from you - my "incorruptible" arch-enemy this means a lot!
And yes, I meant that bit above. I have considered you my most bitter opponent throughout the game. Had it not been to the fear of you and Caelum jumping me I'd have dealt with Van a lot earlier (with help from friends of course, one doesn't go to wars or parties alone ).
Re. flattery. Perhaps it's a cultural thing. Where I grew up ppl are very emphatic and sympathetic and are generous with compliments. I'm sorry if you find this in bad taste. I truly believe my compliments and I am not using flattery. I hate flattery. I'll try to moderate my compliments when talking to N. Americans as clearly there's a cultural gap here.

I hear what you're saying re. staying out of the tough fights. Let me tell you that I was once in the exact spot where you stand now. Then I lost a few games due to *not* taking action in time (most notable first RAND where I could have made a big difference but b/c I didn't take action ended up losing to Micah).

Gem gens I came to dislike. I want to try a few games w/o them and see if like the settings w/o them.

Indies and luck in the game are things that love in dominions. Sometimes you are benefiting from those sometimes not but they do serve to make each game unique and interesting.

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Now to most important stuff:
Congrats to new DON dad to a newborn
Peace and happiness to the family and may you find some time in the future to cont. playing DOM with us
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[WraithLord]

One more thing. I think AARs are nice and have so far been very lacking in this dpt. (won quite a few games but never did an AAR).
I already got one request to do this AAR. I'd like to know whether this is something that ppl are interested in?- I want to know b/c it takes a lot of work to produce...

@Pasha, could you be so generous as to send to me some (or better, all) of the turn files?- Besides being interesting, I could use that stuff for my AAR.

[DonCorazon]

Wraith - no need to change your style. I suspected it might be a cultural thing, but not knowing you, was not sure. I appreciate openness and empathy, but admittedly am suspicious of compliments when they come in the context of a negotiation with a stranger. Please don't let the cynicism of a North American big city dweller dampen your enthusiasm...

As for indies / luck - well you know from some of my comments of the unusual streak I have been on in a few games. Call me a fairweather fan - when things get better, maybe I'll be less bitter.

I'm always interested in AARs. I started a super detailed one for the latest RAND game - complete with screenshots and turn write-ups aimed at beginners. This turned out to be too ambitious and I dropped it probably around turn 15. I would love to start a RAND like game, with like-minded players, where everyone kept an AAR. Wouldn't need to be as detailed as the one I intended, since I think those are prone to being abandoned, as happened in Chronicles, but would be cool to hear perspectives of all the players in a game, to better understand the reasons behind everyone's actions after the game was over.

Finally, thanks for the blessing. Who knows, given the fact I no longer sleep, I may actually have more time for Dominions

[djo]

AARs can be great to read, but they are hard to write well. Not everyone can articulate their strategies clearly. I also play SP Civilization IV, and over on the civfanatics.com forums, there are some wonderful SP AARs that greatly improved my game. The ALCS games were especially useful, where the author played the game as they posted, soliciting advice from the readers as they went, posting screenshots and saves along the way. I have wondered if such a thing would work here, but I haven't got the ambition to try it myself.

[WraithLord]

This kind of detailed AAR is way beyond my meager authoring abilities or my free time allocation.

I did however saved all my turns so can gladly give them to someone ambitious enough to write a decent AAR.

Otherwise I'll just cont. with my telegraphic, poor style AAR

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

...
I appreciate openness and empathy, but admittedly am suspicious of compliments when they come in the context of a negotiation with a stranger.
...

Hah, considering we are all playing this game here in a friendly atmosphere. I'd say we ain't that strangers to each other

Originally Posted by DonCorazon

...
Finally, thanks for the blessing. Who knows, given the fact I no longer sleep, I may actually have more time for Dominions

So no chance you'd take the AAR project of this game from my hands
BTW, you are absolutely right, my daughters first year I slept little and actually had *more* time to play dominions - albeit in strange state of consciousness

[WraithLord]

Turns 16-20:
16. Everybody has 2-3 castles only I am left stuck with 1. Those blessed giants cost a fortune!
Recruiting Gygja for D/N/S/B access

17. Ok. The two forts I was so busy constructing are at last complete, now I have 3 castles. Burn in her celestial prison smiles in content.
The war between Pythium and Van erupts.

18. Oceania is close to extinction at R'lyehs hands. He sends to me a wave breaker that I'll use until the game ends. This wave breaker has literally hundreds of notches, one for each vanquished foe of the true faith
Reach Thaum 2. for site searching.

19. Ulm goes AI with Ashdod being the driver.
Pythium asks for my help against Van but I prefer to concentrate on Ctis. Perhaps this was a mistake on my part as Van will cont. to grow and expand and eat lesser nations and ultimately become a superpower.
Recruit first Joton Skratti. These will prove to be an unstoppable force throughout the game. Properly equipped they even eat Tartarians. An amazing commander with a wide range of abilities that Baalz has described well in one of his guides.

20. Several wars are raging. Most notable is a band of nations against Ashdod led by Pan.
Me and TC finish working out the details for attacking Ctis. The attack is imminent.

[WraithLord]

Turns 21-25:
21. Start war against Ctis with a probe attack. Gere is leading that army.

Expand far enough to contact Arco. Send him PMs and in game msgs w/o response. That's unusual considering his small stature.

22. Trade for dwarven hammers with TC.
TC hits Ctis from NW, I from SE.
Pythium sends a huge army at Van. A mistake IMHO, since Van is a raiding nation, you can't kill him with one clean strike only get your self dead.
Ashdod is under heavy pressude and losing ground.
Ermor and Atlantis start what would be a very long war.

23. Arco attacks me w/o warning and I lose 1200g and an army securing a castle const. site.
Needless to say Arco officially joins my hit list.
Van is raiding Pythium.

24. Van attacks Bandar as well.
I secure a NAP with Van.
I am now sieging Ctis capital. Nor my first Skratti SC is dispatching the PD like so much chaff, equipped with the same old wavebreaker
I finish 2 more castles and climb to first place in that score graph.

25. Ctis has lost its prophet and what remains of its military force to Nor. It is fading.
Pan and R'lyeh lead the VP race with 2 each.

[WraithLord]

More pics.