PPB is the best weapon in the game. Discuss.

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Ah, correction: I never meant that to say that after the PPB you can stop weapons research entirely, I'm just saying that you get them early and then keep em, none of the high tech weapons eclipse them.

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You will do well to keep researching, because eventually the PBB do get "eclipsed". If your fleets are just a bunch of PPB ships, with a few Null Space Weapons thrown in, they are still susceptible to the same problems you individual ship had. The lack of range is going to kill you against an otherwise equal enemy. Setting your strategy to "point blank" doesn't do anything if you get chewed up before you get within range to fire your weapons.

quote:

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But I DO use other weapons..(besides PD): Against organic races I add some Null Space to the mix, and against a race who has been around long enough to have phased shields I add shield depleters.

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Here we start to see a peek at the real reason for your success. It's not your reliance on PPB at all. It's your ability to react to different situations and different enemies. But neither of these are going to help you against an enemy with longer range weapons than PPB.

quote:

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I'm not surprised that a ship with APB XII beats a PPB V ship, but I'll do all I can to destroy an empire before they get to APB XII, not that hard with the early lead the PPB gives me.

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Ah ha! PPB isn't a secret weapon after all. It's your aggressiveness, strategy, and execution that wins you all those games. (I knew it all along.)

And here's the kicker. What if your enemy starts out with PPB as well? That neutralizes your early advantage. Then you are back to relying on your wits, instead of your fancy Phased Polaron Beams.

My entire point in playing the devil's advocate in this thread has not been to say that PPB's aren't a great weapon, especially in the early to mid game. But when I hear terms like "bored" or "repetitive" in reference to SEIV, I gotta think you aren't playing the right people.

Geoschmo

[Nitram Draw]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Cool, I got another active thread going
OK time for next replies:

Ah, correction: I never meant that to say that after the PPB you can stop weapons research entirely, I'm just saying that you get them early and then keep em, none of the high tech weapons eclipse them. But I DO use other weapons..(besides PD): Against organic races I add some Null Space to the mix, and against a race who has been around long enough to have phased shields I add shield depleters.

I'm not surprised that a ship with APB XII beats a PPB V ship, but I'll do all I can to destroy an empire before they get to APB XII, not that hard with the early lead the PPB gives me. (I assume you meant Large mount, not heavy) And I think my PPB ships do better in fleets, so let me post a fleet.
Let's call the design I posted "Killer".

In the mid-game Alpha Fleet will have:
10 Killers
3 PD ships
Enough sweepers to sweep 100 mines
3-4 cruisers with Solar collectors III.
1-2 cruisers with two Repair Bays III and a Hyper Optics sensor.


PD ship: Light Cruiser
Standard stuff (engines, sails etc)
7 PD V
ECM III
1 PPB V
1 Multiplex IV (is this needed on a PD ship?)
1 Combat sensors 3 (Is this needed on a PD ship?)
6 Armor III
1 Stealth Armor III

In the late game Alpha Fleet will be a bit different, same support stuff as above but different attack ships. (also the fleet is more likely to be 40-50 ships, but with same ratio of attack/PD/Support ships)
So lets call this Beta fleet. The attack component will consist of designs Killer II and Nullifier. (I'll use battlecruisers as an example, the same principle can be applied to Battleships).
Mix (against non-organics)
8x Killer II
2x Nullifier

Killer II
Battlecruiser, space 600.
Bridge, 2 LS, 2 CQ
6 JP engines
Solar Sail 3
ECM 3, Sensors 3, Multiplex 4
1 Shield depleter V (large mount)
5 large mounted PPB V
1 PD V
5 Armor III
1 Stealth Armor 3 (for defense bonus)
2 Shield V

Nullifier:
Battle Cruiser
Battlecruiser, space 600.
Bridge, 2 LS, 2 CQ
6 JP engines
Solar Sail 3
ECM 3, Sensors 3, Multiplex 4
2 large mounted Null space III
2 large mounted PPB
1 PD V
1 Stealth Armor 3 (for defense bonus)
1 Scattering Armor 3
2 Shield V
1 Self destruct
1 Armor III

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I usually only build medium and small WP. Smalls have PD only or PB's only, one shield and one armor each. Medium are used for the WMG. 5-10 WP will hold almost any planet. I do play with a mod that increases the WP range so that helps a lot on the beam weapons. It makes taking the AI planets a little more dangerous, some times can't even close without losing ships.

My PD ship are different than yours. I only put the minimum stuff on them and the rest PD, no shields armor sensors etc. I find the AI rarely targets them so they don't need to much protection.

[geoschmo]

quote:

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My PD ship are different than yours. I only put the minimum stuff on them and the rest PD, no shields armor sensors etc. I find the AI rarely targets them so they don't need to much protection.

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This is something I would really like to see. The ability to target specifc ships based on what components they have. I can't think of a better way to stop an enemy cold than to take out his minesweepers, or PD ships, or his supply ships. Fighters or escorts that ignore everything else and head straight for the carriers. That could really cause problems when faced with overwhelming odds.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 04 September 2001).]

[tesco samoa]

I myself like the enveloping acid weapons from the Organic weapons list.

Now how does your apb or ppb ships do when they go up against a ship that has shield depleters followed by a ship that has temporal weapons ( the ones that increase the reload to 15 )?

But natually all this changes based on what mod your playing.

Are we just talking stock 1.41 ????




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L? GdX $ Fr C++ SdT T+ Sf* Tcp+ A M++ MpTM ROTS Pw+ Fq+ Nd Rp++ G+

[Dragonlord]

Tesco,
Yes we are talking stock 1.41, which I think is the most common on PBW.

[dumbluck]

QUOTE]This is something I would really like to see. The ability to target specifc ships based on what components they have. I can't think of a better way to stop an enemy cold than to take out his minesweepers, or PD ships, or his supply ships. Fighters or escorts that ignore everything else and head straight for the carriers. That could really cause problems when faced with overwhelming odds.

Geoschmo
[/b]

I dont think this would be hard to do, to an extent. u can target specific ship sizes, but not components. Just make a custom strategy, and make the strat ignore everything except carriers (for example).

Besides, even if u could target ships carrying specific components, I could fool the strategy by putting one PD cannon (for example) on every ship; which isn't a bad idea anyway, just in case the ai kills off my specialty ship..

[geoschmo]

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Originally posted by dumbluck:
Besides, even if u could target ships carrying specific components, I could fool the strategy by putting one PD cannon (for example) on every ship; which isn't a bad idea anyway, just in case the ai kills off my specialty ship..

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Except that's not really fooling the strategy. If the idea is knock out all the PDC, the ships would target the ships with PDC until the PDC were destroyed and then move on to the next ship. Imagine a planet with missles on WP's, and fighters that are targeting just ships with PDC. If you can knock out all the PDC, even if your fighters get chewed up, the attacker would be wiped out trying to attack the planet with no PDC left to protect his fleet. Of course unless you had a weapon that targeted only PDC, which isnt' an option now either, putting PDC on every ship would make the strategy less effective. So I guess it's fooling it somewhat.

Geo

[Commander G2]

PPBs are a crucial part of any race's arsenal that do not have unique racial weapons. Cheap to research and requires very advanced shields to stop. Armor III is my standard defense against PPBs and put on one Shield 5 just to hold off any fighters that might get through PDCs.

I am in a game against an Organic race where PPBs are practically useless because he buts 3 or 4 armor on his ships. I have to use Null Space weapons to get to him and they are very costly and reload very slowly.

Because his ships use organic weapons, his ships build in about half the time/half the minerals. Organic seekers are a pain to fight because he can launch so many, reload quickly, and they move quickly. If anything is the bane of PPBs, I would say it is twice as many ships with organic seekers and organic armor.