Manifestation is overpowerd.

[Tuidjy]

Manifestation is powerful. I like it this way. It's one of the very few things
that can help an attacker against a well-entrenched, well-scripted late game army.
In my last game it was used against me quite a bit. The first time it hit, it was
pretty bad - out of SCs and combat mages, it managed to nail my cook. An enchanter
with a summer sword, a wine bag and a cauldron... he did not stand a chance, and
there were some hungry, angry giants in result.

But after that, the multiple manifestations did not do much. They hit my SCs
(no contest), freshly summoned teleistic animates (trade of gems) or air mages
(mistform + orb of lightning wins every time) Now I completely agree that
assassination spells can ruin your day when they interfere with important casters'
duties before a major battle. But that is the whole point. Working as designed.

[Tichy]

This seems like its turning into one of those "It should all be math" vs. "there should be some element of luck" debates about strategy games in general. I think the devs and the long-time players have come down pretty firmly on the "element of luck" side for dominions.

[Sombre]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.

Good.

[Baalz]

Please don't feed the trolls. Even the ones claiming they'll not be trolling again.

And, because this thread definitely needs it...

Monkey PD is like kryptonite, nobody can win with it regardless of anything else they have. Even ninjas couldn't win with monkey PD. Even robot ninjas. Even robot ninja tartarians who wished for power. And a pony. Monkey PD is that bad.

[Kuritza]

Baaltz... I'm sorry to say this, but you are trolling now.

One fool claimed that crappy PD is the only thing that makes monkeys lose. Now you like this 'monkey PD' line so much it makes you automatically disregard anything with 'monkey' and 'weak' in one sentence.

[Daynarr]

Markatas are overpowered. They really ought to be nerfed. In fact, I think I'll suggest this in beta forum right now.

[Ironhawk]

Argitoth said:
Anyway, I'm no longer interested in trying to convince people that Manifestation is overpowered. It was fun while it lasted. This is definitely my last thread I'm going to create before I leave.

I for one, will be sad to see Argitoth go. While I disagreed with basically everything he said, who else will make these ranting threads when he is gone?

[Ylvali]

Argitoh is overpowered, perhaps there should be a 50% chance each of his posts are sent to his own email instead.

Can someone fix this plz, Kthx.

[Xietor]

Manifestation is hardly overpowered. It is but one of the very lethal tools at the disposal of a player with high research, d mages, and d gems.

Ghost Riders, Leprosy, Black Death, Manifestation, Banelords, Wraithlords, Legion of Wights, Demi Lich, Tartarians, ghosts and even, properly used, the undead elephants, can be very effective in destroying an opponent.

Death magic is one of the two most powerful magic paths. But to single out 1 spell and call it overpowered? Impossible. Black Death can depopulate your capital by 50 percent for the small price of a few gems.

Leprosy can disease your entire army, and with penetration bonuses, your mages as well.

Banelords early in the game can be near unstoppable, and are a force the entire game.

Ghost riders can beat almost any pd, for the price of 5 d gems.

Manifestation is a good spell, but hardly overpowered. It is not even in the top 5 of the most powerful spells in its line of magic. If a player could only keep 5 d spells in a mp game, I am fairly certain these 5 would rank ahead of manifestation on most lists:

1. tartarians
2. Banelords
3. Lich
4. Ghost riders
5. Leprosy

And to my limited way of thinking, as powerful as the line of d magic is, it is still second to Astral Magic, where a host of spells are game defining.

I really could not name 1 spell that by itself was overpowered, unless it was a global. If I had to name one nonglobal, it likely would be mind hunt. And I do not think even that is overpowered, but I think it is too cheap to cast at 2 s gems.

[Baalz]

I also have to point out that blood is a late game powerhouse to, though much fewer people leverage it properly. The reason is because a good late game death gem income is 30 gems per turn (yeah you can get more, I'm just saying the ballpark you "usually" have to play with). A good late game blood income is 300 slaves per turn. Is a disease demon better that an ashen angel? Probably not. Are 10 disease demons better than one (potentially backfiring) casting of manifestation? Hoard from hell can be even more effective than ghost riders in certain situations and is available much sooner and more easily castable (assuming a good blood income)...and if you want something more analogous to ghost riders there is send horrors, and heck that one even comes in a much more accessible lesser form which still does a good job clearing PD.

As far as overpowered unresistable spells how about the only two truly unresistable spells: go to hell. Only marginally more resistable and castable by very cheap mages: leech. With an AOE 1, high, AN damage leech spam is truly fiendish against elite troops, and it cares neither for your antimagic nor your armies of lead.

I'd put late game blood - properly leveraged, on the same level as astral and death.