Some Observations...(all are welcomed)

[gregebowman]

StarShadow said:
Nah, it's dedication, not addiction

@Wade

I really wouldn't recommend a template approach to building up your worlds. I usually dedicate my worlds to just one or two things (depending on the mineral/organic/rad values), resource poor planets usually get dedicated to research, small/tiny resource poor planets usually end up as storage depots (you need lots of storage to make proper use of 'retro-series'). All planets of small or better usually get a shipyard, moons get either a shipyard or training facility.

That's about how I do mine. Even a tiny planet can hold one storage unit. Sometimes, though, when I'm more advanced, I'll use that one spot and put a atmosphere modifier on a tiny planet to get 2 or 3 units on a planet that's been redeveloped. After deleting the modifier, I can put a storage space, an intel unit or a research unit or two or three, depending on what I need. I know it takes awhile to get that far, but when you do, you'll find you'll still have a need for all of those units.

[Fyron]

Ungh, not more of the propaganda.

[Renegade 13]

I sure wouldn't believe anything a site called "www.thevegetariansite.com" has to say... After all, I'm sure they're totally unbiased. [sarcasm]

[PvK]

Oh... right... never trust vegetarians... or people who care about the treatment of animals.

[Captain Kwok]

I work in the food development industry and can say with some confidence that the conditions are typically in-between the extremes that have been presented here. There's some good processors that make an effort to keep conditions in their farms reasonable. But with any large-scale operation where costs are a major factor (ie for fast food etc), then the practices become more questionable. Small-scale producers can't compete on cost, so they generally raise for speciality markets (ie organic, high quality stores/restaurants) and treat their animals well.

However, that is really limited to the more tightly regulated markets. You would be shocked at some of the things that go on in the less developed regions of the world. What might make things worse is that many large-scale operations (read: fast food suppliers) are moving to these regions for the cost benefits - which means the animals and laborers will take the brunt.

[PvK]

How about the New York Times for a corporate-compliant news organ? Carnivore enough? http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/national/04CHIC.html

The henhouse raid in November was the second for Ms. Park, 32, and an animal advocacy group called Compassion Over Killing. Members of the group court arrest by entering chicken sheds at night and filming the rows of hens crammed 10 to a cage the size of a file-drawer cabinet. They get close-ups of swollen eyes, infected skin and shattered wings entangled in cage wire.

Earlier this year the United Egg Producers, a trade group representing 85 percent of the country�s egg producers, issued revised guidelines in response to the complaints of animal welfare groups. The industry promised to increase gradually the size of the enclosed wire cages it uses, known as battery cages, by 30 to 40 percent; improve procedures for trimming chickens� beaks; and figure out how to force chickens to molt, which induces them to lay more eggs, without starving them for several days.

McDonald�s has agreed to buy eggs only from producers who do not starve their chickens to force molting and who raise them in cages of at least 72 square inches for each bird, nearly double the current United States average of 40 square inches.

Gee, that matches what those untrustworthy vegetarians said... except the vegetarians said the smallest space per chicken was 48 inches.

[StarShadow]

It's not that the vegetarians are untrustworthy. It's the perception of bias. It's akin to getting your information on the negative effects of smoking, from the tobacco industry.

[Fyron]

PvK said:
...people who care about the treatment of animals.

Why should I care about them? They only exist to become food, afterall. I don't want to see excessive production waste just because it makes the animals "happier."

[narf poit chez BOOM]

According to my dad, who was raised on a farm, eight chickens cannot be crammed into an 8x8x8 sized encloser.

Based on my own understanding of the dimensions of a chicken, I doubt you could fit a single chicken in there.

[Renegade 13]

PvK said:
Oh... right... never trust vegetarians... or people who care about the treatment of animals.

Note I didn't say that vegetarians are untrustworthy, I said the website was obviously biased. Big distinction.

I'd also like to point out that I absolutely resent the implication that I don't care about the well-being of animals. I have never once in my life mistreated an animal, no animal. We raise cattle here and they have never been subjected to any inhumane practices. Never. Being a vegetarian doesn't make you superior to us savages who eat meat. And just because people eat meat it doesn't mean they don't care about how animals are treated. It's really too bad typing doesn't allow for emphasis to be applied, or facial expression to be expressed. I think the look on my face and tone of my "voice" would say a lot...

As for what some PETA loving animal hugger from "Compassion over Killing" says, I really don't give a [censored]. In any industry there are bad apples. It doesn't make the entire industry cruel and unjust. And given the way "animal rights activists" act, I wouldn't doubt they did that to the chickens themselves.

Note the word "trimming" when referring to beaks, not burning as has been said. Think of it this way; we castrate animals. That could be said to be akin to "trimming". Yet it is painless and harmless. I can guarantee they aren't yanking the entire beak out of the chicken. It would stress the animal which would cause it to lose weight and not perform as well as it would otherwise.

I would also like to know the definition of "starve". I'd bet it means feeding them a certain diet, not refusing to feed them for days on end. Be reasonable.



As is probably evident, I get a little worked up about stuff like this. Let me tell you something:

Vegetarians are primarily people who have lived in cities all their life, and not been in touch with the real world, outside of cities.

Vegetarians have been raised watching Walt Disney movies, and think that all animals are harmless and nearly the equal to people. They're not, never will be.

Vegetarians would not stand a chance at survival if they were deprived of their "civilized" comforts. If you couldn't go to the grocery store and buy all your organic, non-meat products and you actually had to grow and kill what you eat rather than go buy it, you would eat meat. If you didn't, you'd die. You'd also see that animals are just that; animals. They are not on the same level as a person. That doesn't excuse mistreatment, don't for a minute think that I believe it does. However, death is part of life (bit of an oxymoron there, but hey...). Killing and eating animals does not make people 'evil'. They've lived their life, and don't know there's any other way to live. However they live, as long as they don't live in pain, that's what they're used to. They think it's natural. It is not cruel.