OT: Muhammed-caricatyres and freedom of speach

[PvK]

There's a difference between the religion and the most moronic and violent people from the same culture. The West has violent morons too, and the Islamic militants are incited by people they trust telling them how intollerant and terrible the Westerners are.

All it takes is one incited moron with a destructive plan to have a chance to ruin or end other people's lives and get on the TV.

Then all it takes is a moron politician to use this as an excuse to erode civil rights a bit more and create some more security pork-barrel projects.

PvK

[Atrocities]

Its funny that they advertise Islam as the religion of tolerance, yet when reasonable people say wait a minute, how come the Imans aren't coming out in droves denouncing the beheading of kidnap people, and the suicide bombings that kill hundreds of inocent people, especially children, yet they come out in arms over a stupid series of cartoons.

Those reasonable people who say wait a minute are then cast as the "bad guys" because they dare say "wait a minute Islam is not a religion of peace and tolerance."

Perception, actions speak louder than words. Right now the perception that many people have, including me, is that Islam is not a religion of peace and tolerance. It is a religion of intolerance and hatred.

I don't see that many people standing up and saying "Stop the violance. Stop the murdering. Stop the bombings." It appears that perhaps they are ok with this and want more. It is sickening to think that people will riot and kill other people over a catoon, yet stay home and laugh when people of their own religion blow up a school yard full of kids in the name of the Islam.

Like I said, a religion of hatred. Its ok to kill people, but its not ok to draw a cartoon. WTF?

[Emperor's Child]

I believe that the Fundamentalist elements of certain countries are using this event to their advantage to foster even further fear and mistrust among their own people.

Nevertheless, can you imagine if a Fundamentalist Islamic country were to become a Nuclear power...lets say "there was no holocost" Iran, the same country that officially approves of the destruction of Israel. How long would it take from the time they get a nuclear device to the time they detonate it over Tel-Aviv? Makes you wonder.

[Renegade 13]

Religions evolve over time, they change. Change is the one thing in life that is inevitable, besides death (Taxes can be worked around ). I don't know my Middle Eastern history that well, but in the past wasn't Islam an honorable, decent religion?

Well, perhaps in the past it was. Perhaps it still is, I don't really know. But like I said, things change. Perhaps Islam has changed from an honorable religion gradually to one accepting of violence against those who are not believers. Maybe I'm wrong. But take for example the evolution of mainstream Christianity. It to began as an honorable religion, promoting unity, harmony and selflessness. However, that changed, as all things do. The Crusades. The higher-up Cathlics doing everything in Latin which no one understood in the Middle Ages just to keep people in the dark. The collection of money from members of the religion. The Catholic Churches is immensely rich...comes from ripping off the church-goers for millenia.

Now I'm not attacking either Islam or Christianity. Well maybe I am being critical. But I think everything I've said is accurate to the best of my knowledge, so I hope nothing I've said is overly offensive.

[Atrocities]

Don't get me wrong, but sometimes I wish a large enough group of people here in the US would get bat**** angry over things much like our eastern friends. Not to the point of killing people or destroying property, but more to the point of telling our government, private business, and so on that we don't like being treated unfairly or being ripped off. Image if all the people in the US went bat**** bad over the Enron, MCI, Tyco, collapses? Or when the Government takes private property and gives it to a developer who then makes millions. If that is not a reason to get bat**** angery, then I don't know what is.

Our friends from the east might be onto something here.

[dogscoff]

Yes, the people burning buildings and killing people are mindless [censored] idiots, but they DO NOT REPRESENT ISLAM AS A WHOLE. Islam is a peaceful religion. There are individuals within it who happen to be psychopathic ****wipes but that means nothing. You have to remember Islam has a much flatter, less heirarcichal structure than christianity. No-one represents Islam in the same way the Pope represents Catholocism, so any head-up-his-arse tosspot with a headful of other people's martyrdom can speak up and be heard. The more moderate ones speak up too, it's just that "hey, let's all be nice to one-another" doesn't grab the headlines in the same way "KILL ALL THE INFIDELS! SEND THEM BACK TO HELL!" does.

To a certain extent the fault lies with the media. Quite apart from the fact that certain media interests are more than a little influenced by certain political groups who might find that the demonisation of a particular religious persuasions could possibly go some way toward justifying certain less-than-friendly and politically-sensitive actions taken toward those groups in the recent past (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this latest development turned out to be a deliberate attempt to antagonise the muslim world in order to more easily demonise it), the plain fact of the matter is that hatred, conflict and intolerance sell newspapers/ news TV a lot better than moderation and calm. And it works on both sides of the fence I'm sure- I don't doubt that the Islamic media have had a part in whipping up the storm, and shame on them.

Look at us from Muslim eyes. Imagine how their news reports told the stories of the last four years (or how their how their history books tell the last four HUNDRED years) and try to see the picture that must be presented to them. If we want them to believe that the abuses of abu-graib, guantanamo bay and the like are mere abberations in an the behaviour of otherwise well-behaved forces, we have to accept that the actions of the minority of muslims in this case do not reflect the majority. If we want them to believe in our humanity, we must first ackowledge theirs.

Anyway, if you want to read the words of a moderate muslim calling for calm and understanding, please go back and read the link I posted upthread. If you don't want to read it, then tough [censored] because I'm going to quote it, coz it seems clear to me that no-one bothered to read it before. Yay to the BBC for giving these words some airtime.

(Abdullah Badawi, Malaysia's prime minister) said mere talk and being nice to one another were not enough, and mutual respect should replace hegemony.

"They think Osama bin Laden speaks for the religion and its followers," he said, quoted by the Associated Press news agency.

"The demonisation of Islam and the vilification of Muslims, there is no denying, is widespread within mainstream Western society."

But Muslims for their part had to avoid "sweeping denunciation of Christians, Jews and the West", he added.

"The West should treat Islam the way it wants Islam to treat the West and vice versa. They should accept one another as equals," he said.

Remember, there are a zillion examples of Islam living comfortably and peacefully side-by-side with other religions and cultures in the east, the west and everywhere else. That is the norm. That is Islam.

[Phoenix-D]

"(and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this latest development turned out to be a deliberate attempt to antagonise the muslim world in order to more easily demonise it)"

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an attempt on the part of tin-pot dictators to piss people off, in order to have an outside enemy to point at.

Notice, for example, that the cartoons were originally published in September..and that some of the cartoons circulating are fakes that look designed to be offensive.

[abda]

Post deleted by abda

[Atrocities]

If they got mad about some cartoons, then they should not watch South Park. Oh man did they ever rape Bin Laudin over the humilation coals.

[Hugh Manatee]

I have good odds that the south park creators take this and run with it. It's not beyond them to put Muhamed in their show. That or they will have their "Jesus" character get pissed about a caricture of himself.