OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[dogscoff]

So, to ANYONE, of ANY nationality who uses their money to buy something that's either stupid, over-priced, or bad for them, go look in the mirror and quit blaming others. People need to take responsibility for their choices. I used to smoke. If I get cancer later, it's my fault. I used to eat fast food / McDonalds. If I never return to a healthy state again, it's my fault.

People who get fat eating burgers and try to sue mcdonalds are losers, I agree. I think the smokers might have a point, given some of the highly addictive crap in cigarettes, but that's an aside. It's the people who suffer from these products and *don't* complain about it that cause me the greatest worry.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

And I personally do not have ANYTHING against normal American people... as long as they are able to make choices for themselves without relying in the idealistic worlds you see in commercials everyday.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Well placed Dogscoff.

[geoschmo]

Keep in mind that American influence of this level on the world stage is a historically recent thing. For much of our history we were pretty isolationist. The current generation in power grew up in an era where we were the only major nation to come through World War II basically undamaged. The cold war was our major formative influence and that taught us basically that there is right and wrong in the world, and that we were right. Nuance and subtlety wasn't really something we dealt with. We have to learn a little humility, and we have to learn a little moderation. I believe that for the most part we are decent people and are just trying to make a living the best way we know how.

These things run in cycles, and if we can manage to get through the next fotry years without wiping ourselves out or irradiating the planet I'm hopeful that things are moving in a more positive direction long term. While the threat of terrorism is real, it's not nearly as serious as many here believe. Certainly not as serious as the threat of mutual nuclear annialation that I grew up with.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Terrorism in the US is now impossible. Al Qaeda is practically beheaded and is without a firm base of operations. The US's internal and external security is so tight, that a large terrorist attack is virtually impossible.

As for the rest, very well put Geoschmo. I certainly hope that happens - though preferably not in forty years, but sooner if possible.

IMO your post is the best so far. If this discussion ends here, I hereby declare you to have "won" this discussion.

[Renegade 13]

Ok, just to clear a few things up:

- As for the nukes in European countries: Your leaders have to have accepted the nukes being there, no?? Take your frustrations up with your leaders. They are the ones who should be listening to the common people, and if the common people say no nukes, they shouldn't accept American nukes. However, you can't blame the US for wanting to have nukes all over the world; it gives them power, and everyone wants power. Convince your leaders that the people don't want the nukes, and they'll probably leave.

- Fat has been proven to be as addictive in some cases as nicotine (addictive agent in cigarettes). Therefore, the point made below about cigarettes being different than fast-food due to addictive factor is not horribly accurate. However, I think that people who used to smoke before it was known to be unhealthy....that's not so much their fault as people being fat is. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who are overweight due to eating lots of fast food. Like someone said, it's your own hand that's stuffing your own face. Your own choice.

- Americans are by no means the only people who practice "cultural imperialism" if there is such a thing. They are simply the most successful at it, and therefore they take the brunt of the criticism of the world. Doesn't at all mean that other countries aren't trying to do the same thing...maybe even some of your own countries?? (referring of course to the people here who are not American)

- Oil: The middle east supplies a lot of the worlds oil, granted, but here in Canada, in the tar sands of Alberta there is supposedly more oil trapped in the sands than is in most of the middle east oil reserves. Also, where I live, in British Columbia, there's huge oil reserves off the coast and actually all over the province. They simply haven't been tapped as much as the middle east has done. My point is, if the Middle East cuts the world off oil, it won't be such a horrible thing. In fact, I'd prefer it if we didn't have to rely on such an unstable part of the world for a product that most of us use in our daily lives. Be happy Americans, NAFTA forces Canada to sell you whatever oil you want to buy from us. Even though you still won't accept our beef!!

Now, not all of what I have said has any bearing on this conversation, but I hope it all does relate to the central theme, or at least to the many tangents this conversation has followed.

Oh, and for those of you thinking I must be American, because I'm not blaming America for all the world's problems, think again. I'm Canadian, and yes, there is a difference . A big one. Whose culture would you rather be under the influence of, American, where people are usually considered equal, at least under the law, or a culture like the Indian one, where it's perfectly alright to kill a woman simply because she 'shamed' your family? Or another similar culture?? Always remember, no matter how bad things are, they can always, always get much worse...until you're dead. Cant' get much worse than that, eh??

[dogscoff]

Terrorism in the US is now impossible.

Terrorism is never impossible- that's one of the reasons all the "security" measures (patriot act et al) now in place are so ridiculous and frightening.

That's not to say we - or you, america- should hide under our/your bedclothes and not come out. Terrorism may not be impossible, but it is still rare, despite what Bush and Blair would have you believe. Save your fear for something with a more significant statistical chance of killing you, like a bizarre laundry-realted accident or being savaged by an enraged giant mutant squirrel or being drafted into the armed forces and sent to the middle east.

Besides, making you live in terror is what terrorsts want you to do. And getting us to give up our cherished freedoms in the name of supposed security is something else they would regard as a victory as well.

[Renegade 13]

StrategiaInUltima said:
Terrorism in the US is now impossible. Al Qaeda is practically beheaded and is without a firm base of operations. The US's internal and external security is so tight, that a large terrorist attack is virtually impossible.

I'm sorry, but large scale terrorism is not impossible. Perhaps large scale Islamic terrorism is impossible, but if I, a Canadian citizen, went down to the US with the purpose of performing terrorist acts, I would have no trouble at all doing it. Why? Because I look like an American. No one could distinguish me from an American visually, so they wouldn't suspect me. How would I do my terrorist acts? Not in the way that the Islamic terrorists flew a plane into a building which was, to be honest, very inefficient with how they did it. Oh yeah, and if I was a terrorist, I can almost guarantee you that you would not catch me for a long time. You'll see why as I explain what a 'smart' terrorist would do:

What would my terrorist activities be?? First, I would travel to California in the summer. No, not for a vacation What would my terrorist tools be? One thing, a box of matches. I would go around to all the forests and start lighting fires. Soon, the entire state would be ablaze. What's that? That's not terrorism?? I beg to differ. I would cause massive destruction, and cost the US feds and state gov't's many millions to rebuild, and put out the fires. Call it economic terrorism.

Next, I would do something else, like blow a few bridges up. Major ones, and trust me, it wouldn't be hard. Build your own explosives, and down goes the bridge. Stop that after a few bridges. Can't let them see a pattern.

You see, there's many ways for large-scale terrorist attacks that don't require dying, or hijacking aircraft. All it takes is a few smart people to figure out a smart way to cause massive damage. There's also a good reason why the 9/11 terrorists chose to do what they did; they wanted to kill Americans, due to an overwhelming hatred. A smart terrorist wouldn't concentrate his efforts on killing people, he'd concentrate on killing the economy. And that my friends, would end up causing a lot more damage than a couple of collapsed buildings, and a few thousand people dead.

Scary isn't it what kind of terrorist ideas a 17 year old kid can come up with. Imagine if a serious terrorist thought of this, and actually intended to do it? What havoc could he cause?

[Renegade 13]

As a matter of fact, the terrorists are succeeding right now. I dont' see how the American gov't doesn't see that they are playing into the hands of the terrorists right now. All their 'security' is costing untold billions of dollars. Economic terrorism, at it's best. Eventually, the US will hit the point of no return, and collapse economically.

[geoschmo]

StrategiaInUltima said:
Terrorism in the US is now impossible. Al Qaeda is practically beheaded and is without a firm base of operations. The US's internal and external security is so tight, that a large terrorist attack is virtually impossible.

Impossible? I wouldn't go that far? Ever heard of the Alfred P. Murrow Federal building in Oklahoma City? Terrorism doesn't require an active, and well funded organization. A highly motivated individual acting alone, or in a small independant cell can do a lot of damage. My point wasn't that terrorism can't hurt us. Ironically my chances as an individual beign killed by terrorists is, though infinitesimally small, are greater than the risk of being killed by the soviet union ever were, short of an all out nuclear exchange of course. But the terrorist capabilty to cause serious damage to America as a whole is much smaller. Even if the worst case scenario were to happen and they took out a major city with a nuke or something, we would survive as a nation.