SE5 - Strategies

[Fyron]

Agreed, with a few modifications:
You can only retreat if you are faster than any enemy warships AND you are not in any enemy firing range AND you are at the edge of the map/not hemmed in by enemy ships. This Last clause might be hard to code, so instead of having a specific "retreat" button which may or may not be available at any given time, I have another suggestion- a "run like hell" button:

The idea was to only be able to retreat at the edge of the combat map. Makes no sense to be able to retreat if the enemy is firing at you... and if you are faster than the enemy, you will be able to get out of range of their guns and reach the edge of the map, if you ships are set to retreat orders.

A larger combat map (and a moddable size one) would indeed be a great addition.

[davewski]

I'm brand new to this game but I see here that people are requesting scripting for choreographing combats. My only request would be to keep the emphasis on human interaction. Too many games get ruined because the combat systems or PvP interactions devolve into whose uber script can defeat another's by spamming various commands. Then it simply becomes a push button system with little or no human strategy guiding it.

[FLX]

Compiling those scripts before using them will prevent the players to do those "uber scripts", you can limit the number of lines of code or limiting the times that you command the same, and of course, it IS a push button system if you dont use tactical combat. I think it really is backwards, i mean, scripting the strategies would give deepness to the game, and a more customized behavoir of the ships. If you want fully human interface, use tactical combat, but you can't choose in pbw games.

[davewski]

The one mini example I saw posted consisted of a nested series of IF:THEN statements involving IF the opponent has these ship types, THEN choose this tactic. IF they have THAT, then do that tactic. What kind of decision making is involved with something like that? It seems to try and become a one-size-fits-all methodology that takes much of the decision making out of ship design, fleet design, formations, and choice of tactics. I am referring specifically to the strategic combat system as I won't be playing many games against computer opponents.

Now, it is quite possible with new game ignorance that I simply don't appreciate what people are referring to regarding these scripts. If this is true then I'll shut up now. If not, then I'd like my opinion voiced as a person most likely to purchase the new game when it comes out.

[Master Belisarius]

Don't undersand very well, those complaints about ONLY the "uber" programers or more experienced players, would be able to do the best scripts.

To me is pretty obvious that would be allowed to save those scripts, and post them as part of more AI scripts or saved as strategies scripts itself or something like that.
Then, every human player would be able to use combat scripts done by others.

Given the opportunity to the fans to customize more things, the game would be better and better.
We had a taste comparing the TDM AIs vs the Stock AIs. But if we could start to use better scripts/tools, then, for sure the game will be a lot more interesting for SP, but also for MP games.

[tesco samoa]

plus the se universe has a good habit of sharing and explaining. I think our track record at this site shows that.

[Kevin Arisa]

One of my biggest gripes is the way satellites are deployed. 4 out of 5 times the sats are on the opposite side of the warp point\planet that the enemy is on. The enemy then is able to stay at least 3 spaces away from the sats by staying on the opposite side of the planet\warp point and the sats cant do anything about it. Perhaps making the sats form a ring or sphere around whatever it is they are orbiting would fix this.

Regarding retreating, I think distance should be the deciding factor. I dont know any scripting language or anything but I have guessed on something like this:
If player distance from enemy > 5 + enemy max weapons range.
That way a ship would have to get out of weapons range before falling off the map. Perhaps making the boundaries move to keep the combatants off the edge unless they are out of range of each other. That would add a bit of an ". . .almost. . .there. . ." effect to retreating.

Regarding custom formations, An interactive window that has all available ships in the fleet in a "tray" on the side and a blank grid in the center. Then a simple drag and drop action would make it easy for even the newest players to get in on fleet formations. Of course, defaults should be kept as an option.

Some sort of scripting would be great. Those that dont want to learn how to use it can just use scripts made by others.

[Baron Munchausen]

More important than just bringing retreat back, the AI has to use it properly. Enough with the suicidal aliens. We need some sort of 'morale' included in the AI so that crews will know when they are beaten and give up instead of attacking to the Last lifepod. Yes, it can get complex building 'motivation' into the game because you have to account for external circumstances. A battle to defend your homeworld against a genocidal foe is obviously far more likely to see the suicidal behavior we've become used to seeing from the SE AI than a battle for some warp point on the fringes of a huge empire. But that's what AI is for -- to make the computer seem to think like a 'real' person. We need a much smarter AI in combat as much as in game play.

[Baron Munchausen]

I think the satellite problem will be solved in SE V by default because of the new combat engine. Each 'unit' (whether ship or otherwise) is modeled individually. There won't be 'satellite Groups' anymore so there won't be unnatural concentrations of them. They will be placed individually like ships and therefore will always be scattered much more broadly and usefully then they ever were in SE IV.

[tesco samoa]

One thing I think that needs to be addresed in combat is scanning and jamming. I think that this needs to be broken down to different levels and types.

And I think there needs to be combat range on the scanning.

Cause I feel that you should not know your enemy ships just because your fighting them.

Does this sound like an interesting idea ?