VQ Counters - NO Debates - Page 5

Gandalf Parker · #41 May 5th, 2004, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:

quote:
Is there something I'm missing? What's the fatal flaw?

The fatal flaw is you are down 50 astral pearls, probably an angel or two and the VQ loses... a battle. Maybe a province. There's no reason for that VQ not to charge back into that same province the very next turn, regardless of how futile the odds seem to be against winning.

In my games getting back to the same province would take awhile, even for a flyer. And those can be precious moments since I tend to play nations where I would have an army on the way to her capital.

Meanwhile my angels would be getting ahead of the game claiming the neighboring provinces. True its not a 1-on-1 win, more of a wear-down tactic. But it sounds like a good one.

archaeolept · #42 May 6th, 2004, 12:03 AM

well, the fatal flaw is that she is in a castle.

in fact, of course, all the VQ's provinces are castled in the total strat, so hit and run tactics are unlikely to accomplish much, other than perhaps draw down a few ghostriders or some such.

now, if you manage to actually stop the dominion push, well, then the VQ isn't that much of a threat anyways since she is very unlikely to be sent out of her dominion, except perhaps w/ an exceptionally powerful army.

now, if I have pearls, I tend to buy lots of angelic hosts, esp. as I usually have some sort of bless effect going. but they've never actually managed to bump into a VQ yet. They are fairly weak units, as well, and I think you'ld need a few squads to take down a kitted up VQ; if somehow you managed to find her hanging out in the open ground.

[ May 05, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

AhhhFresh · #43 May 6th, 2004, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:

quote:
Is there something I'm missing? What's the fatal flaw?

The fatal flaw is you are down 50 astral pearls, probably an angel or two and the VQ loses... a battle. Maybe a province. There's no reason for that VQ not to charge back into that same province the very next turn, regardless of how futile the odds seem to be against winning.

Furthermore, I have my doubts as to if the strategy works. Maybe I'll test it out and see.

Well that's why I would say you need to cast it several times on the same province... to keep casualties down... ideally you'd have her completely surrounded with flambeau weiding divine entities... I can't concieve of a way that a naked VQ could survive more than a turn or two in that.

And I'm not sure what equipment she could wear that would really help her... anything that raises her defense... but how many (13+13)x3 AP damage hits do you really need? 2? Boots of Quickness maybe, so she can throw up two buffs before she is surrounded... but a Charcoal Shield isn't that impressive against angels since thay are fire resistant(50)... if she had a decent weapon, she could certainly take down an Angel or two... but naked life drain isn't going to save her.

Oh, and they're SACRED... so if you have a decent bless, watch out!

Yeah, it's a lot of Astral pearls... but they don't go away, you'll still have them to beat her down again... but now you'll be able to script those Holy 4/Fire 3 Archangels...

The main problem I see would be dealing with "chaff"... which obviously needs to be examined.

Pirateiam · #44 May 6th, 2004, 12:20 AM

I currently have a game set up where I can pretty much try any non nation specific unit up against a VQ with any possible buffs or items. I have tested many units and combinations. So far my GoR'd Crusher has done well. Also devil dog piles work well also. One strategy that I have scrapped all together is any kind of missle units. I have tried multiple combinations of missle units and they just do not even scratch her. Even a 20 commander team with eye of aiming, justmans crossbows, quick boots etc could barely scratch her in 10 tries. If anyone has a combination of units to try against her let me know. I will try the Arch angels next and let you know how they fair in 10 attacks.

Blitz · #45 May 6th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Wow. Very impressive.

Even in +10 emor dominion, the angels wrecked her before she could buff. I had a few problems getting the angels to attack the right undead though. Even when Emor dosen't bring armies, there are usually a few skeletons lying around. While the angels kill any undead they swing at, they also get their asses handed to them in 1-2 hits even by skeletons. Without trying it, I imagine two Groups of them would be sufficient to take out a NAKED vq. This VQ had 0 experience, and only quickness, invuln, mistform, soul vortex, and breath of winter.

A non-naked VQ on the other hand is another matter entirely. What's the standard build for a tricked VQ these days?

Wraith Sword
Starshine Skullcap
Elemental Armor
Boots of the Messenger
Amulet of Magic Resistance
Pendant of Luck

I'll see how she does in all that. Get back to yas.

Norfleet · #46 May 6th, 2004, 12:30 AM

If you want to make sure the angels get the right target, you may not want to just summondrop them on your target if there's a lot of clutter there: If you order them to attack fliers, on the other hand, they'll nearly always get their victim, because as the lone flier of the Ermorian horde, the VQ will be singled out for death by anyone told to attack fliers.

Blitz · #47 May 6th, 2004, 12:30 AM

Quote:

I currently have a game set up where I can pretty much try any non nation specific unit up against a VQ with any possible buffs or items. I have tested many units and combinations. So far my GoR'd Crusher has done well. Also devil dog piles work well also. One strategy that I have scrapped all together is any kind of missle units. I have tried multiple combinations of missle units and they just do not even scratch her. Even a 20 commander team with eye of aiming, justmans crossbows, quick boots etc could barely scratch her in 10 tries. If anyone has a combination of units to try against her let me know. I will try the Arch angels next and let you know how they fair in 10 attacks.

Make sure you have her in +10 domain. Makes a HUGE difference.

Quote:

If you want to make sure the angels get the right target, you may not want to just summondrop them on your target if there's a lot of clutter there: If you order them to attack fliers, on the other hand, they'll nearly always get their victim, because as the lone flier of the Ermorian horde, the VQ will be singled out for death by anyone told to attack fliers

Ever lost a VQ to angels Norfleet? Could save us a lot of simulating if you had a nice story to share

[ May 05, 2004, 23:32: Message edited by: Blitz ]

Pirateiam · #48 May 6th, 2004, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Wow. Very impressive.

Even in +10 emor dominion, the angels wrecked her before she could buff. I had a few problems getting the angels to attack the right undead though. Even when Emor dosen't bring armies, there are usually a few skeletons lying around. While the angels kill any undead they swing at, they also get their asses handed to them in 1-2 hits even by skeletons. Without trying it, I imagine two Groups of them would be sufficient to take out a NAKED vq. This VQ had 0 experience, and only quickness, invuln, mistform, soul vortex, and breath of winter.

A non-naked VQ on the other hand is another matter entirely. What's the standard build for a tricked VQ these days?

Wraith Sword
Starshine Skullcap
Elemental Armor
Boots of the Messenger
Amulet of Magic Resistance
Pendant of Luck

I'll see how she does in all that. Get back to yas.

Nice! I am actually having fun doing this, it is like running a test lab. Blitz is it possible to run your test multiple times? I use the Clash of titans map and I am on turn 289 lol I have something like 220 clams hehe.

Also has anyone come up with any Capital Jacking ideas? Because to make the hit squad tactic work you must also jack the Ermor Capital at the same time.

Pirateiam · #49 May 6th, 2004, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Make sure you have her in +10 domain. Makes a HUGE difference.

Yeah I allway keep her in at least a +8 dominion. My problem is she has so much experience now that I think it is starting to effect my results.

Blitz · #50 May 6th, 2004, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Nice! I am actually having fun doing this, it is like running a test lab. Blitz is it possible to run your test multiple times? I use the Clash of titans map and I am on turn 289 lol I have something like 220 clams hehe.

Not really. I just started a game as Arcoscopile and made a zillion philosophers, switched sides and made a zillion researchers for Emor.

Once I got to 7 on both sides, I had just enough pearls for one fight. One side note - the Arcoscophile research machine easily doubled Emor.

"A philosopher a day keeps the VQ away"