OT- Spelling is out.

[rdouglass]

I too had no problems reading it; yes, a little slower maybe by a fraction, but very readable nevertheless.

Just to throw a spin on it, maybe it has something to do with howe we see, not specifically how we read. I read before how our eyes generally recognize the outlines of objects (the areas of contrast) rather than the "fill" areas. Our minds just fill in the outline with the appropriate information. Maybe that has something to do with it. Remember there are a limited number of words that have similar beginning and ending letters and who are the same length as each other. Our minds just quickly calculate the options and "fill in" based on the context of the surrounding words.

Just an observation and hypothesis...

[rdouglass]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Oleg, I have to agree with you. I can read that russian text with the exact same level of ease I would read normal russian...

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
As for your rant a page before, I would partially agree. (And yes, I read it and care about your opinion ) I wrote "partially" because I cannot speak of how English-speakers felt when coming in France for obvious reasons. I don't know about your hypothesis to explain this hostility or at least, this distrust from the French government, which would be linked to the choice of an "universal" language to be used in airports . To use English as the basic language in such cases is sensible IMO, simply because English is speaking much more widely than French to begin with. French was perhaps an universal language before, but that was five or six centuries ago so.

I'm certainly not qualified on the subject. I'm only drawing conclusions based on some other facts. And, as Dennis Miller would say, "Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong."

I think things (relationship) between France and the US turned bad several years after WW2. The US kept troops there. France said to get out. The US left. My dad was one of them and from firsthand knowledge, I can tell you a lot of people in the US were upset. He told me of a newspaper graphic that had a picture of gravestones in France with a caption that said, "Some of the US soldiers can't leave."

In the late 50's or early 60's, the "world" decided a universal language was needed (and there is no need to repeat my story). I'll just add that ANYONE with any sense would have to understand the economic impact/benefit of having one's country's language chosen. The final 2 Languages, French and English, were debated hotly. When French was, hmmmmmm, "discarded" and English chosen, I'm saying that left a bitter pill in French stomachs. I'm saying, fueled by the feeling their country was being occupied after the war and the selection of English over French as an international language, many French people became upset/angry. And just as a lot of people in the US are upset that the French seem to be a big "thorn" in the US/Iraq/terrorist situation, a lot of French still harbor ill feelings about the US.

Now, I realize there are lots of side discussions one could delve into. It's certainly a complicated subject. And I'm no authority for sure. But with firsthand experience while visiting France, I'd have to say I experience more aggression there than any other country I visited. And part of the reason, I believe, I tried to explain above.

(pardon any typos...rushing this through from work)

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Nevertheless, I have to admit French usually have an issue with English, many barely know this language, and there are some who, even if they are fluent in English, are reluctant to use that language. I'm wondering, is such an attitude common in other countries or is that yet another oddity of France?

I won't pretend to speak for other counties but I can speak from experience. I can easily say, from personal experience in my travels, the following:

(1) The older a person was, the higher probability they didn't speak English.

(2) The "poorer" a country was, the greater the chance the (average) population did not speak English.

(3) The more a country (or area) was a tourist attraction, the better the chances English was spoken (except for France).

Those are some general assumtions I have drawn. Please understand, I was not the typical tourist. I RARELY used a tourist bus or travel agent. I drove or flew to get where I wanted to go and I rented a car (or used mine) or used the wonderful rail system to get around after that. And while I DID visit "tourist" spots, I made it a point to travel in "non-tourist" places (with my case of camera equipment)

In closing, I'd like to show my objectivity a bit. In general, US tourists are more likely to be a--holes than the average tourist from another country. Arragant a--holes. Many were the times I was embarrassed to be American. And, to stay on topic, during the time I traveled heavily, I noted it was rare that an American spoke the language of the country I was in. We Americans REALLY suck when it comes to speaking a second language.

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I'm certainly not qualified on the subject. I'm only drawing conclusions based on some other facts. And, as Dennis Miller would say, "Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong."

I think things (relationship) between France and the US turned bad several years after WW2. The US kept troops there. France said to get out. The US left. My dad was one of them and from firsthand knowledge, I can tell you a lot of people in the US were upset. He told me of a newspaper graphic that had a picture of gravestones in France with a caption that said, "Some of the US soldiers can't leave."

In the late 50's or early 60's, the "world" decided a universal language was needed (and there is no need to repeat my story). I'll just add that ANYONE with any sense would have to understand the economic impact/benefit of having one's country's language chosen. The final 2 Languages, French and English, were debated hotly. When French was, hmmmmmm, "discarded" and English chosen, I'm saying that left a bitter pill in French stomachs. I'm saying, fueled by the feeling their country was being occupied after the war and the selection of English over French as an international language, many French people became upset/angry. And just as a lot of people in the US are upset that the French seem to be a big "thorn" in the US/Iraq/terrorist situation, a lot of French still harbor ill feelings about the US.

Now, I realize there are lots of side discussions one could delve into. It's certainly a complicated subject. And I'm no authority for sure. But with firsthand experience while visiting France, I'd have to say I experience more aggression there than any other country I visited. And part of the reason, I believe, I tried to explain above.

(pardon any typos...rushing this through from work)

Really interesting there. I would also like to point out there were already tensions during WW2, near the end of the conflict, when the future status of France was debated between Churchil, the current US president at this time (sorry, I forgot his name. *Sighs*) and De Gaulle for France. And then aftewards what you said occurred, France was ruled by De Gaulle and the US troops had to leave France. (Quite strangely, I don't recall having studied any of this in our history. Well, maybe it isn't really strange after all. )

Then for the issue of an universal language, I don't think it has directly affected the French, but the government then could have been upset by this decision, leading to a few legislations here and there. (Even though English as a universal language makes sense to me, but perhaps saying so will get me sued by some French. ) It could have happened, taking advantage of the French pride, but I am no expert on such fields.

Now the interesting question would be to know if other tourists from other countries (Germany for instance) have also felt this aggression. We would know if Frenchmen do have a problem with America and Britain, or if they have issues with everybody who isn't French. (That would be quite a lot of people) Quite paradoxal in either case when you know France is one of the most visited country in the world.

We Americans REALLY suck when it comes to speaking a second language.

Frenchmen and Americans do have similarities after all. Your average French will speak an average French, not very good from time to time, a few will be able to speak fluently two Languages (French slang does NOT count as a foreign language), and I have yet to see a French able to speak *three* Languages, that is to say a French who has a common understanding of these three Languages, including French.

As for your points, I haven't traveled a lot myself so I cannot really speak of such topics. But it makes sense, especially the first statement, the odds for a old French to speak English are... well, so low that the Hearth of Gold is required to meet such a person.

[ September 16, 2003, 19:47: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, so low that the Heart of Gold is required to meet such a person.

????

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

quote:

---

well, so low that the Heart of Gold is required to meet such a person.

????

---

It was an OT remark in an OT topic, so sue me. The Hearth of Gold (silly typo) is a quite special ship in "An Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams. *Conspiratorial nod to Fyron*

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ah, thanks.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Alneyan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I was talking about the laws and the official governemnt institution to maintain the purity and such of the French language, not just some stuffy academians.

Oh, I gather you are speaking of the "rules" (not exactly laws, but desirable translations, yes it is quite the same) to use French "equivalents" of English words. These ones aren't commonly used and usually funny or ludicrous. But perhaps you are also refering to other oddities? I am not too interested in the strange instructions coming from the French government concerning the language myself.

---

Well I don't know about laws about what gets made 'offically french' but the french here in Canada (in Quebec) certainly have laws that make damn sure you use the french language. Yes they actually have language cops. It's illegal to put up a sign in front of your business unless it is in French too. And the French has to be bigger I believe. You can't even run an English only web site in Quebec. I even read a story were kids on a shool ground were reprimanded for speaking English. I don't know why this bugs me so much since I live in Ontario but it does. It's just so unbelievably undemocratic. heck I would go so far as to call it racist.

[Slynky]

My memory sucks pretty bad sometimes, DavidG, but several years back...was there some talk of Quebec "exiting" Canada? Or something real controversial like that.