Figment - Early Game (Started)

[DonCorazon]

Vanheim still follows the game from beyond the grave. I hope those DX 11000s are holding up well.

[Corwin]

DonCorazon said:
Vanheim still follows the game from beyond the grave. I hope those DX 11000s are holding up well.

Hehe.

Well, if you are interested - Mictlan has managed to push me back all the way to my original border with the old Kingdom of Vanheim. Most of the major battles so far have been there, on my old border with you, over my heavily fortified last line of defence before my capital and its two nearby support castles. Two last attempts to penetrate this line by Mictlan have been repelled, with massive losses on both sides. Most of my castles north of that defence line have fallen to Mictlan hordes, who now controls almost all territory of what used to be Vanheim. But his troops have been meeting increasing resistance as he tries to push further south into my historical homeland.

In the center my castles are slowly falling as well, but I have managed to sneak capture a Mictlan's capital, using flying ship to leapfrog over his teritory with large army. Unless he will get it back he won't be able to build any additional capital-only mages.

Of course, being Mictlan and having easy access to tartarians and various blood summons, as well as sacreds that could be built anywhere, loss of the capital is not such a big deal to him. But still, it got to hurt somewhat.

[AdmiralZhao]

To be fair, I did stale the turn you took my capital. So you might not want to brag about that victory too much.

[Corwin]

AdmiralZhao said:
To be fair, I did stale the turn you took my capital. So you might not want to brag about that victory too much.

Hey, haven't you taken one or two of my castlles, as well as successefully attacked me in about 40 places all over the map, during that "stale" turn?

Damn, I need to learn how to stale better. If only I knew this advanced staling technic of yours, the turn when you have attacked me 3 turns ago would went so much better for me. As it is, when I have staled recently it costed me dearly, in lost initiative, casles, territory and troops. My nation would be in siginificantly better shape now if not for that lost critical turn right after your attack. But I've chosen not to dwell on it much, concentrating on doing my best with the current situation in the game.


Anyway, how about some AAR from your side of the confilct AdmiralZhao? It's always interesting to see the war from different perspectives. This thread has been too quiet recently, despite frantic activity in the game. Let's try to change it, shall we?

[AdmiralZhao]

Please see the above posts about the technical difficulties on that turn. I'm not sure what to call it, since I was able to finish some of my attack orders, but not the forging or other orders.

I agree that your stales hurt you great deal, and that if there is one thing this game has been marred by, it has been the many technical difficulties and stales (BtW, thanks Gandalf, your hosting has noble and flawless and perfect). Really, I think that whatever the eventual outcome of the game, one stale more or less on either of our parts would have tipped the balance of the war. What I'm trying to say is, we're both winners.

I've been writing up an AAR, but I foolishly keep reading the forums before posting it. Time for bed for now though.

[Corwin]

This turn in one of the major battles against my forces Mictlan has casted Mist Of Deception on me. I was very dissapointed to see it, since it is well known that this spell is horribly broken. In all recent Dom3 games I have played over the last half year it is the only spell outlawed.

As you guys know, in our game I had 3 Air Queens for most of the game, not to mention many of Air tartaians. I also have armor of Virtue, and I have maxed research long time ago.

However, despite fighting for my survival and losing badly to the Mictlan's horeds and their allies, I never casted MOD in any of my battles. If I did, I could inflict thremendous losses on Mictlan armies without any risk for myself. Most of my fallen castles would still be in my hands as well, at the very least.

But I didn't do it, since this spell is clearly broken. If you cast this spell it is almost impossible to lose the battle against *any* army, as long as you understand its broken mechanics. The price of the victory is not high enough for me to use such cheesy tactic.

That's why I was very upset and dissapointed to see Mictlan using it against me this turn in a major battle, despite the fact that he is clearly winning the war against me.


Now I don't want to be too harsh on AdmiralZhao. Technically he didn't break any rules. We do have rule in our game that ban any player for using MOD and retreating from the battle. But I don't think that's what he did - I think his air caster retreated by himself.


Nevertheless this tactic used by Mictlan is very dissapointing, especially from the nation who is already half-won the game. As far as I know this is the first time in our game anybody used this broken spell. This should stop.

As the result of it I have lost a mage, suffered afflictions on my best SCs and saw all enemy commanders retreat to safety, and lost the battle despite having no enemies left in the field.


Oh well, what done is done. But I would like to introduce two notions for the remaining players.

First of all - I strongly believe that MOD should be completely outlawed, as it already is in most of the serious MP games. It was never used in our game until now, and it should never be used again, since it is cheesy and broken.

Second - since Mictlan has used it on me this turn, I should have a right to do the same against him on one turn, as a compensation for his action.

Up until now I had nothing by respect for AdmiralZhao, for his smart and creative tactic and strategy. He also has honored his in-game word.

So I would like to make it clear that I am not accusing him of cheating or abusing the game - techically he didn't broke any in-game rules that we all agreed upon. And it is possible that he didn't know that MOD is so broken. If this is the case, I hope this was just an accident that will not be repeated in the future.

Let me know what you think.

[AdmiralZhao]

I agree with you Corwin.

Usually in our large battles, you are at the very back, and my bats move forward to attack at a glacial pace, enduring turn after turn of spells to reach your lines. I was hoping to switch that around on you this time, by hanging back myself, and letting MoD do the work while we both hung back. The eventual intent was to force your armies/mages further forward, so that Banish to Inferno could start being effective again. The intent wasn't to hit and run; it was to arrive with 200 Army of Gold/Mass Regeneration beast bats, and sit at the far back of my lines, petrifying and charming anyone who came forward to meet us, while the MoD took care of your back line of mages.

Instead, you showed up a bit earlier than expected, and MoD
showed once again why it is hated and reviled. Feel free to use MoD in one of our future battles as payback. I won't use it again in any capacity due, since even when you try to use it in a decent fashion, it has the potential to be an exploit.

I would point out that in this instance the damage was not too great; you only lost one A2 air mage and you destroyed my army at that square. You did not take the province though, which you would have done without MoD.

[Corwin]

AdmiralZhao said:
I agree with you Corwin.

Usually in our large battles, you are at the very back, and my bats move forward to attack at a glacial pace, enduring turn after turn of spells to reach your lines. I was hoping to switch that around on you this time, by hanging back myself, and letting MoD do the work while we both hung back. The eventual intent was to force your armies/mages further forward, so that Banish to Inferno could start being effective again. The intent wasn't to hit and run; it was to arrive with 200 Army of Gold/Mass Regeneration beast bats, and sit at the far back of my lines, petrifying and charming anyone who came forward to meet us, while the MoD took care of your back line of mages.

Instead, you showed up a bit earlier than expected, and MoD
showed once again why it is hated and reviled. Feel free to use MoD in one of our future battles as payback. I won't use it again in any capacity due, since even when you try to use it in a decent fashion, it has the potential to be an exploit.

I would point out that in this instance the damage was not too great; you only lost one A2 air mage and you destroyed my army at that square. You did not take the province though, which you would have done without MoD.

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback and explanation. It is what I hoped it would be. I will probably use MOD against you on one of the further turns, and that will be it.

As for the results of the battle - at this point I don't care about your bats anymore - you have demonstrated you can replace them much faster than I can kill them. I was hoping to nail your commanders, but instead my SCs were running after illusions and geting affliction. Not to mention that my air mage died and I didn't get the province.

It could be worse I suppose, but considering how tough things are going for me (I have lost lthe leader position in almost all graphs), I was hoping to win at least this big battle that I have carefully scripted and prepared.

Anyway, it is now settled as far as I concenred.

If Fomoria (and Oceanina, if they have high-air mages ) will agree to join this MOD ban, it should eleminate this problem for the rest of this game.

[AdmiralZhao]

Hi all. After communing with the ancestor spirits, I've decided that the only way to cleanse the MoD taint from my family's honor is to withdraw from the game. This decision is in no way related to the fact that turns are taking me 6+ hours to complete, and can no longer be reasonably combined with work and the other demands of real life. If you want, I can try to find a sub, though I think that at this point Corwin has earned his victory.

And now, here is the AAR I mentioned up stream:
Corwin's AAR is spot on; this has been the most hard fought and even game I have played. My past games have been anti-climactic, with one nation having a clear advantage in skill and material. They quickly steamroll their way to victory, their graphs shoot upwards, and the remaining players cede. Because of that, I've never fought real wars past turn 60 or so, and haven't really seen the mass tartarians that they always talk about on the forums.

This game has definitely been different, and is the first time I've seen the *real* late game. At least in the southwest quarter of the map, every province is regularly attacked by hordes of imps, troops of undead calvary, sky-covering swarms of demonic bats, Lords of Hell, unspeakable Horrors, and insane, nigh-unkillable dead Gods who wield fiery swords and awesome magics. Mortals now survive only behind the walls of their keeps, and beneath the magical domes which (mostly) keep the raining fire at bay.. It certainly captures the feel of the End Times.

In more detail, Mictlan continues to press south, though we have been badly defeated in two major battles over the last months. The formerly pristine lands around Sauromatia are now a ruin, but the strong points guarding his capitol have held out, as their SC defenders proved slightly more super than the SC attackers I have thrown at them. Many brave beast bats lay stricken on the ground, echo-locating their last cries as they expire from the various injuries suffered from sword, stinger, claw, lightning, poison, fire, ice, exhaustion, banishment, and cleansing water. Even the survivors have PTSD, and face chronic nightmares where they are slowed to a crawl by fierce storms, while trying to escape from legions of buffed undead. Still, new beast bats are always showing up at the swampy recruitment centers, and we are moving more of them south. The bat's H3 priest-commanders tend to survive, so they at least can head back and pick up fresh troops to shuttle to the front lines. We will be making another push soon, and in the mean time our raiders continue to pillage his un-castled provinces, and are slowly expanding their area of desolation.

So, that's the general situation as of last turn. If no one is taking over Mictlan, then tomorrow I'll make a more detailed post about what went on in this game (from the Mictlan perspective), what strategies I was bringing against Sauromatia, and how I expected things to go.
Cheers,
Zhao

[Rathar]

I'm good either way as I am but a bit player in this. Never used MoD in any game and shan't.