Jets & Planes but no UAV's here.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

I don't mean to quibble, but I did say "enhanced."
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No clue what they'd "enhance" at this point, they're still working on basic operability (software, certification to carry various weapons, getting the gun pod working properly, ...).

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

My purpose with the next is very basic, simply it is to provide general information on who is currently operating carriers in the world now and what their capabilities are in regards to combat aircraft and air assault troop capabilities or a combination of both as many listed have. Why? To allow for these options to be available in the game and for scenarios that amphibious assaults are part of the mix. It hasn't been just about "landing craft" for a very longtime now. A minor point that might add a new dimension to the game or your scenarios. The upside you wouldn't even need to show/or build the ships after all these are over the horizon operations in the first place.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...raft-carriers/
http://www.military-today.com/navy.htm

I leave you the main site that covers 10 main topics as noted in the left side column. They do cover a lot of ground and is well researched. I'd hate to lose this site like a couple of others so if you think about click on it "traffic counts" are real important to defense sites due to the "niche" market they serve.
http://www.military-today.com/index.htm

Regards,
Pat

The part in the article about the RN Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers (named after Queen Elizabeth I 1533-1601, btw) is way out of date. The British Government officially announced, well over a year ago, that they will normally deploy 24 F-35B and I would be amazed if they only carried 4 helicopters, given they need at least two for AEW (see Crowsnest project) plus others for ASW, etc. Also it seems they are about 70,000 tons full load.

36 F-35B in a major conflict seems reasonably likely, and, as I've said before, there is no way these huge ships -the largest ever built for the Royal Navy- cannot carry 50 aircraft.

UK is buying 148 F-35B, as of now.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

No clue what they'd "enhance" at this point, they're still working on basic operability (software, certification to carry various weapons, getting the gun pod working properly, ...).

In other words getting the damn thing to be able to fight and survive.

The AI wingman software for one...the employment of deep strike capabilities for another.

As I alluded earlier, forward deployment of the 3rd MAW is political for if the 3rd is ready for forward deployment in support of a MEU (ground support, strike missions, etc), then deployment to Turkey where the pilots would get learning of the F-35B her capabilities, etc and how to best use the aircraft in combat, for surely there are countless combat sorties to be had there rather than Japan.

But, if all the problems you cited exist and I've read some of the same, then forward deployment is not justified. The birds are not ready.

Properly speaking "enhancement" may also mean making the damn thing work or making it work better, not necessarily adding something new, often referred to as scalability.

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[IronDuke99]

This is an old article, (mid 2014) but it does show a QE class carrier (right) next to a Invincible class light carrier they are replacing.

The three invincible class ships, after midlife refits, could carry a maximum of 20 aircraft of all types at a squeeze.

The deck edge lifts are both down on QE.

HMS Queen Elizabeth is due to enter Portsmouth Naval base for the first time at some point between between March and May this year.

http://navalanalyses.blogspot.com.au...eth-class.html

Click photo to enlarge.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by IronDuke99

This is an old article, (mid 2014) but it does show a QE class carrier (right) next to a Invincible class light carrier they are replacing.

The three invincible class ships, after midlife refits, could carry a maximum of 20 aircraft of all types at a squeeze.

The deck edge lifts are both down on QE.

HMS Queen Elizabeth is due to enter Portsmouth Naval base for the first time at some point between between March and May this year.

http://navalanalyses.blogspot.com.au...eth-class.html

Click photo to enlarge.

She has two carriers under production in the QE class, is that right? And, as I recall, RN will deploy only helos until about 2021 or so. Can you give more detail.

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[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

In other words getting the damn thing to be able to fight and survive.
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In the case of the B it's already a superior aircraft (in almost all respects) to what it's replacing, the Harrier. I'll freely admit I'm not as familiar with the A and C variants.

Look at the F-35 in comparison to what it replaces as a ground attack aircraft not in comparison to air superiority aircraft.

The F-16 didn't come out of the box as it exists is today, no new aircraft does. Has the F-35 had more then it's share of problems, probably. Are those problems insurmountable, no.

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by shahadi

She has two carriers under production in the QE class, is that right? And, as I recall, RN will deploy only helos until about 2021 or so. Can you give more detail.

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Two Ships, HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales (both are traditional Battleship rather than Aircraft Carrier names in the RN. There remains a slight possibility than PoW might get renamed Ark Royal).

HMS Queen Elizabeth is only now finishing building and is a brand new ship of a brand new class and has yet to do sea trails, etc.

She is pretty unlikely to be operational in any sense until 2020 and that is when she will get her first fixed wing aircraft. Because the F-35B aircraft will also be new that is going to require a fairly long work up too.

At the moment UK owns four F-35 and is due to buy 148, most will be RAF manned, although RAF squadrons will deploy to the carriers. Given the RAF intends to operate its F-35B aircraft in a conventional manner (ie, normal runway landings) on land, it remains to be seen how this will work in practice. At sea the F-35 can land vertically, but, if full of fuel and/or weapons will use a "rolling landing". My guess is that that is a skill that will require practice...

(The RN has air and flight deck crew on attachment with the USN and USMC, and has had for some years now, to help work up big carrier/F-35B skills and also occasionally does stuff with the French Carrier).

She should be more or less fully operational, with a full air group, in 2021-22, when, rumour suggests, she will do a Indian Ocean-Pacific deployment. A full, peacetime, air group should be 24 F-35B and about 8-12 Helicopters including AEW with Crowsnest.

HMS Prince of Wales should Commission 2019-20, and getting her operational should be much quicker. Having two Carriers will mean the RN will be able to maintain one constantly in commission and, mostly, have two available for major emergencies.

The current plan is that PoW will also be able to double as a Landing Platform Helicopter for the Royal Marines, although a lot of people, including myself, think that is a crazy, and risky, idea for a 70,000 ton warship. She would be a huge, very high value, target sitting just off an enemy coast. Hopefully common sense will prevail and HMS Ocean will be run on, until a replacement can be built.

The RN's last big Carrier was HMS Ark Royal 1955-79, that ended up at 54,000 tons, 804ft with a oa beam of 171ft and could carry up to 38 aircraft.

The QE's are 70,600 tons, 920ft with a oa beam of 239ft and can carry "over 40 aircraft" including aircraft as large as Chinook and Osprey.

Frankly I will be amazed if these ships cannot carry 50 aircraft if need be, given that only USN Carriers are larger (The latest USN Gerald R. Ford class carriers are over 100,000 tons, 1,106ft with a oa beam of 256ft and carry 75+ aircraft).

HMS Hermes (the RN Flagship in the Falkland's conflict of 1982) was about 30,000 tons, 744ft with a oa beam of 144ft and at one stage in the Falklands war had an air group of 36 aircraft of all types.

For more info see
http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/carr...tion-nonsense/

[IronDuke99]

PS

In an earlier post on the Harriers in the Falkland's conflict I made an error.

The Task force sailed with 20 Sea Harriers (12 on HMS Hermes and 8 on HMS Invincible).

These aircraft were later reinforced by a further 6 Fleet Air Arm Sea Harriers and 10 (not six as I mistakenly said) RAF GR3 Harriers.

[IronDuke99]

I was reading a article today that says HMS Queen Elizabeth will get some Helicopters aboard later this year and the first F-35B late in 2018, although I still don't think she will be fully operational, barring a national emergency, much before 2020...

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by IronDuke99

I was reading a article today that says HMS Queen Elizabeth will get some Helicopters aboard later this year and the first F-35B late in 2018, although I still don't think she will be fully operational, barring a national emergency, much before 2020...

Yes, I too recall a report the HMS QE class carriers won't be F-35B suitable until sometime beyond 2020. Something to do with a retrofit of her decks. Until then, she will carry helos.

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