Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6

[Frozen Lama]

Hinnom seemsto have acess to two Son of the Sun pretenders. one S1 one F1. this is in vanilla also. maybe just change the name of the S1 since son of the sun seems more firey to me.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Micah

I was just speaking about the sacreds, not the nations as a whole, though you're blowing 5 scale picks on that build vs a TC with s9w9 at any level of dominion (the starting dom doesn't cause enough of a difference to matter) and I doubt the 2 points of strength will change the battle results by much.

Sorry I thought you said F9S9 vs F9W9. You're ownly blowing 3 scale picks due to a heat preference on mictlan.

Well, with 11 tests, only two of which were conducted at 6 hp and 9 hp (one each). mictlan won 5 fights, TC won 6. Tests were fought within TC dominion.

These were at even odds, usually 10 on 10.

A few things I noticed:

Eagles won more often because they killed the enemy priest.
TC inflicted much more casualties, in general. TC never lost more than 5, mictlan lost 9 or 10 4 times.

These results seem *highly* variable.

Switching to a s9w9, the TCs won 6 out of 9, at equal #s. The extra defense of the W5E's and extra attack just tears mictlan up.

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Even if you *don't* do it on a gp basis - M5E's are cap only and do not scale.

T'ien Chi's warriors are inferior to Mictlan sacreds only in that they are capital-only. Their strengths are different. TC does better vs. units relying on fire/heat/cold for instance. Eagle warriors are great against units which need boosting for instance, as these will get attacked before their buffs are on.
My point about using a bless for EA T'ien Chi is that the bless allows them to start fast. They'll tear down non archer indies. Later on, as the W5E are capital only, you can't rely on them, but you can summon sacred demons and sacred celestial warriors in the mid-game, and your bless should help these too. So mid-game, TC still has usable sacreds, which they can mass-summon everywhere (if you have the gems).
By the way, one reason to recruit a master of the way over a master of the 5 elements if these weren't capital only would be to try and get an S random so you can summon demons of heavenly waters, but it's probably easier to bring in a celestial master (fly/teleport/trapeze depending on what you've got) than risk 4 or 4 lousy picks in the process.

[Micah]

Mictlan's heat preference is only one point, and it's kind of odd to bring it into the discussion anyhow, since it's not like Mictlan loses it if they don't take a bless. Additionally, I can't remember the last time I took anything but heat or cold at 3, because it's by far the least important scale, so getting a freebie there isn't worth as much as one elsewhere.

I take it the only reason mictlan won 3 of those fights with the proper bless is because they popped the commander? The Element warriors just absolutely mop the floor with Mictlan's troops. Even at equal goldcost the eagles were being destroyed wholesale when I ran some tests.

[zlefin]

Proposed change: short sword attack from 0 to 1.
Because short swords are pretty decent weapons, but their current stats has them plain inferior to broad swords, while in reality they have some advantages and are used for those at times.
May help unit balance some, as short sword (like spear) tends to be a weapon on lame units.
Zlefin

[Trumanator]

Biggest problem with short swords is length 1. Att boost wouldn't be bad though, since they're plausibly more nimble. Maybe even a def boost?

[Fantomen]

That minor short sword boost is a very good idea. As it is now, short swords are a plain disadvantage. I suggest 1 in both attack and defence.

[Amonchakad]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

That minor short sword boost is a very good idea. As it is now, short swords are a plain disadvantage. I suggest 1 in both attack and defence.

LA Agartha could really use a boost like that, considering that all their melee troops, even their sacreds, use shortswords, which makes them quite ineffective.

[Quitti]

Or then, swap the short swords of the blindfighters into broad swords. It wouldn't make them top of the line troops but would make them at least a bit more viable without spending points to blood in your bless. Rest of the troops I see as pretty fine for LA troops for what they can and can't do.

[rdonj]

Another suggestion for the next version of CBM: divine grasp should be a bonus weapon, so you can equip iron angels and not lose the halt sacred attack.