Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Sir_Dr_D

Could one of the way to balance nations just be to increase the gold and/or resource settings at the beginning of the game. If sacreds are a smaller percentage of armies, it may make the game more balanced.

Yes and no.
At first glance making a 'richer'game seems as if it would mean more normal troops compared to sacreds.

However, it doesn't actually change the equation tooo much. Blesseds expand faster, and so have a steeper ramp up on their incomes. So instead of building a castle on turn 4, they build it on turn 3.

What it does tend to do is compress the game. Expansion against indies tends to happen faster. Armies tend to get larger faster.

There are also other effects. Niefle, hinnom, agartha a few other nations tend to love rich resource and gold games, and it tilts the balance in favor of them, rather than dom limited smaller nations.

Spell research easier is a bigger effect, in my opinion.

[Sombre]

Who is arguing otherwise? That statement is a truism to the point that it's meaningless. What you're talking about is the goal of the mod. Still. Even if qm never said another peep about CBM there are plenty of posts about the intentions behind CBM. Plenty of IRC logs. And even without those, the changes themselves tell a pretty clear story of balancing units, items, spells against each other. There have definitely been changes made which were primarily about nation balance, for example the original toning down of Hinnom's starting army (before a patch did it).

Anyway, no need to argue about it. Just ask qm if you want to know. Send him an email or pm, that's probably easiest.

[Micah]

I was just speaking about the sacreds, not the nations as a whole, though you're blowing 5 scale picks on that build vs a TC with s9w9 at any level of dominion (the starting dom doesn't cause enough of a difference to matter) and I doubt the 2 points of strength will change the battle results by much.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Micah

I was just speaking about the sacreds, not the nations as a whole, though you're blowing 5 scale picks on that build vs a TC with s9w9 at any level of dominion (the starting dom doesn't cause enough of a difference to matter) and I doubt the 2 points of strength will change the battle results by much.

Sorry I thought you said F9S9 vs F9W9. You're ownly blowing 3 scale picks due to a heat preference on mictlan.

Well, with 11 tests, only two of which were conducted at 6 hp and 9 hp (one each). mictlan won 5 fights, TC won 6. Tests were fought within TC dominion.

These were at even odds, usually 10 on 10.

A few things I noticed:

Eagles won more often because they killed the enemy priest.
TC inflicted much more casualties, in general. TC never lost more than 5, mictlan lost 9 or 10 4 times.

These results seem *highly* variable.

Switching to a s9w9, the TCs won 6 out of 9, at equal #s. The extra defense of the W5E's and extra attack just tears mictlan up.

[kianduatha]

I finally noticed something that bugs me: Ichtycentaurs and Trident Knights don't have a hoof attack. They should, at the very least on land. Give Trident Knights lances too and you might even see people using them.

[Frozen Lama]

Hinnom seemsto have acess to two Son of the Sun pretenders. one S1 one F1. this is in vanilla also. maybe just change the name of the S1 since son of the sun seems more firey to me.

[Micah]

Mictlan's heat preference is only one point, and it's kind of odd to bring it into the discussion anyhow, since it's not like Mictlan loses it if they don't take a bless. Additionally, I can't remember the last time I took anything but heat or cold at 3, because it's by far the least important scale, so getting a freebie there isn't worth as much as one elsewhere.

I take it the only reason mictlan won 3 of those fights with the proper bless is because they popped the commander? The Element warriors just absolutely mop the floor with Mictlan's troops. Even at equal goldcost the eagles were being destroyed wholesale when I ran some tests.

[zlefin]

Proposed change: short sword attack from 0 to 1.
Because short swords are pretty decent weapons, but their current stats has them plain inferior to broad swords, while in reality they have some advantages and are used for those at times.
May help unit balance some, as short sword (like spear) tends to be a weapon on lame units.
Zlefin

[Trumanator]

Biggest problem with short swords is length 1. Att boost wouldn't be bad though, since they're plausibly more nimble. Maybe even a def boost?

[Fantomen]

That minor short sword boost is a very good idea. As it is now, short swords are a plain disadvantage. I suggest 1 in both attack and defence.