My AI Design Q&A

[JLS]

Originally posted by cybersol:
Well, you certainly are persistent.

I was just looking for a yes or no answer

Now I have to figure out what you just typed

[cybersol]

Originally posted by JLS:
If I can make it work in Proportions, it may work in se4. The Component database is similar but the Greater Cargo Capacity for the Cargo Bay in se4 is probably the problem

Hehe, I just looked at the AIC small transport hull for the AI. Yeah, that is a different beast altogether. 30% Cargo storage requirement with almost no maintence, minesweeping, and some cargo already built in

Originally posted by JLS:
I was just looking for a yes or no answer
Now I have to figure out what you just typed

Well, I wanted to make sure I answered your question FULLY this time

[ June 13, 2003, 22:47: Message edited by: cybersol ]

[JLS]

Cybersol,

That is why my Abbidon mine layer design for Proportion may have a shot.

Do to AIC's AI programing their little in AIC designs that can "help you with your unmoded AI Designs"

[cybersol]

They just keep coming! Is anyone reading anymore?

9) Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

browsing. some of it.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by cybersol:
If you still have questions, then ask specifics.

A: Does boarding work for the AI

From what I have seen the TDM Vikings (by Rollo) use it extensively. I am still wondering what JLS observed to make it seem ineffective.

JLS, why is boarding ineffective.

D: I think I understand why mine sweepers don't work for the AI

Both MB and I have said they work ok, but not great. Why do you think they don't work?

Now I am not sure I understand.
JLS you seem to be the only one that says those ai minesweepers are ineffective. Why is this? What would you say for the trade-offs of the true versus false? What would choose True or False.

E: Should I build Planet Ship and Fleet Facilities. JLS and MB says yes, you say it does not work

. So ship training probably couldn't hurt, especially on planet types where the AI ships tend to hover for a turn or more. Fleet training, need some input from the experts.

What planet types would you recommend the ai to built the Ship Training Facility?
I don’t understand, why would the “Fleet training, need some input from the experts”
Does the AI handle Fleet Training operationally different from Ship training?

3: Is there anyway to stop the AI from trying to retrofit. No one has said what happens to this ship, the way it sounds you would have dozens of over the HW.

Well, for me it tries to retrofit for 10 or more turns until finally the tech changes so the new design is different and then the ships can retrofit properly. Since posting this problem, I now run into a similar one where ships that hit the 50% retrofit limit just sit there useless trying to retrofit but failing over and over again for a long while.

The way it sounds you would still have dozens of ships over the ai Home World.

How long of a long while, is this expected to Last? 5 turns or 500 turns?


5: Could someone answer 5 please.

7: What does the AI do with its damaged ship

As far as I can tell, the damaged ship after retrofit bug seems to happen because the hardcode does not factor in repair aptitude. But I still need to test a race with 100% apptitude to make sure.f

What does the AI do with its damaged ship. More specifically, if the ai has a ship with minor damage in the home systems warp point?)

5: Specifics. In the Vehicle file will the AI use the lines after 11?
And what of the redundant Colony ships in exploration for example). For example, build some colony ships, build some attack ships, build colony ships again to replace, build support ships, build colony ships again to replace, etc.

I don’t understand how this has been answered?

Originally posted by cybersol:
5) AI_CONSTRUCTION_VEHICLES.TXT. It seems in my experience that you get a more even distribution of ships if you add multiple copies of the exact same entry (colony ships in exploration for example). For example, build some colony ships, build some attack ships, build colony ships again to replace, build support ships, build colony ships again to replace, etc. My guess is that if the hardcode is at entry 12 in this file, then it goes to 13 when it finishes 12 without looking at 1-11 again until the next time it arrives at them by going around one at a time through the loop. How do you think it works?

Originally posted by cybersol:
5) I was just plain wrong. The construction_vehicles file reads from top to bottom inside the current state everytime it wants to construct something.

[cybersol]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
What planet types would you recommend the AI to built the Ship Training Facility?
I don't understand, why would the Fleet training, need some input from the experts. Does the AI handle Fleet Training operationally different from Ship training?

If the AI disbands and reforms fleets without good reason, then any fleet training that had managed to happen by chance will be undone since the fleet was disbanded. Ship training will not be affected, though.

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
How long of a long while, is this expected to Last? 5 turns or 500 turns?

In my case 10 to 50 turns depending. Longer for the 50% limit problem than for the same design problem.

Update on the retrofit ship damage front:
Ok, the Last few times the AI has done a retrofit, waited a single turn, then sent the ship off. It is not related to repair ability because no repair ability could repair enough components in one turn to fix some of those ships. The ships fly around damaged trying to perform their normal role like nothing is wrong with them.

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
5: Specifics. In the Vehicle file will the AI use the lines after 11?
And what of the redundant Colony ships in exploration for example). For example, build some colony ships, build some attack ships, build colony ships again to replace, build support ships, build colony ships again to replace, etc.

I don't understand how this has been answered?

Well, the file doesn't work the way I thinking when I asked question five. MB and some further testing cleared it up though. Here is how it works. Every turn the AI goes to the top of the queue in construction_vehilces for whatever AI state you are in presently. "Exploration" for instance. It reads entry 1, adding whatever is needed to the build queue of some world. If you still have resources and more build queue slots then it goes to entry 2. So it starts at the top and goes down every turn. Thus a redundant call, say build ten colony ships at entry 1 and again at entry 4, has no value and is just redundant. Because every turn the first entry causes it to fill the build queues to have 10 colony ships total the second entry has no effect. But a second call to build 20 colony ships at entry 4 would then add 10 more if there were build slots available after 1-3.

[cybersol]

Originally posted by cybersol:
They just keep coming! Is anyone reading anymore?

9) Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?

They say it is bad when you start talking to yourself. But here it is nonetheless. Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned in #8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the galaxy.

[cybersol]

Still looking for novel solutions to the following AI bugs.

Problem/Bug 3a)
Is there anyway to stop the AI from trying to retrofit to a �newer� Version of a ship that is in fact the same as the old Version? This results in ships being wasted just sitting there and trying to be retrofitted but failing because the ships are identical.

Problem/Bug 3b)
A similar bug where ships that hit the 50% retrofit limit just sit there useless trying to retrofit but failing over and over again. This happens for a long time, sometimes they switch and try to retrofit at a different ship yard with the same result.

Problem/Bug 6)
As a human player I can design a ship with a small transport hull that has only 5 mine layer components and no cargo storage components but sull fulfills the 50% cargo requirement. Since the mine layers secondary ability is cargo storage and 5*30=150 and 150/300 >= 50% then this is a valid design. Is there a way to have the AI design this ship, or is a transport hull forced to have eight cargo storage components for the AI no matter what?
To prove this design works for a human player, do the following. Start up an unmodded game with yourself in command, create a ship design with a small transport hull. Fill with command and control and engines. The "50% of spaces must be used for cargo containers" warning won't let you create the design yet. No add only five mine layer components. The warning disappears, you can create the design now. You need zero cargo components to make this ship. Now try to get your AI to build that same ship. As far as I can tell it is impossible.

Problem/Bug 7)
The AI will retrofit a ship and then leave before it finished repairing all the damaged components it just created.
Since I've have been looking in more detail, I noticed a pattern the Last few time the AI has done this. It does the retrofit, waits a single turn for any repair work, then sends the ship off for duty. The ships then fly around damaged trying to perform their normal role like nothing is wrong with them.

Problem/Bug 8)
Most ships seems to understand when they are running out of supply except colony ships. Those are really important ships not to stop off and resupply before travelling across the entire quadrant. Is there any trick (before solar collectors make it unecessary) to get them to stop and resupply at a forward system and then go off and colonize.

Problem/Bug 9)
Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?
Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned above in 8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the entire quadrant!

[oleg]

Originally posted by cybersol:
Problem/Bug 9)
Any way to force the AI to do engine retrofits at planets with both a shipyard AND a resupply base? For instance, is there a way to get it to build a resupply base (even though it wants to put only one per system) on every planet with a shipyard?
Ships with supply storage components at least still have some supply, so this helps this problem some. The only really bad problem is then colony ships because as I mentioned above in 8), colony ships never try to resupply. Even if they retrofit engines at a non-resupply base and have only 500 supply from their supply storage they still head (very SLOWLY) accross the entire quadrant!

Absolutely ! AI religiously follows the build order specified in A_construction_facilities file. All you should do is to insert entry with "resupply" on every colony type that has "space yard". Regarding "resupply colony", it does not have to be only one per system. It is also specified in the same file. In fact, one my Proportion' AI build up to 5 resupply baces per system and space yards+resupply baces every time