retro-multi-model construction???

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

But in a simultaneous turn game against other players, the retroseries becomes more expensive because you have to include in the cost of maintenance on your ship for all those turns while you do your thing.

I don't have a complaint against it with normal run of the mill attack ships. Only with stellar manip ships, where a single ship can influence the outcome of the game. Being able to build a warp-opener ten turns early is a huge advantage.

The extra maintenance on a single ship's first 5 retro-series designs is negligible. Warping directly to your opponents homeworld ten turns earlier is priceless.

[Taera]

i tend to agree there - perharps MM should ban stellar manip. retrofitting?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Taera:
i tend to agree there - perharps MM should ban stellar manip. retrofitting?

This can be modded. You can give the stellar manip components the space yard ability, but with no value so they can't actually build anything. This way the game will restrict you from retrofitting to a design that has one.

I suppose it could be a problem doing this. It would allow someone with a stellar manip comp to trigger a retrofit. Although I dount anyone would build ships with stellar manip comps for this purpose. Seems kind of silly when a real space yard is way cheaper.

The only other problem is the AI would probably get confused and try to build stuff in the build queues for these ships. Which would would make the ships not move since a ship can't move if it's got something in it's build queue.

Geoschmo

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by spoon:
Again, look how retrofitting works in non-simultaneous turns. You can build a bare bones ship in one turn, and then, in the next turn, retrofit it all the way up to a star destroyer. This isn't buggy behavior???

I wouldn't really say it's too buggy. It also makes it possible to approximate SEIII's build method in a mod. Make shipyards able to build the bare minimum ship in one turn, and play around with costs to make maintenance what you want it to be. Then, make the maximum allowable retrofit difference very high, and simply pay for your components up front. Then you use the repair capacity to build your ships. The only dramatic difference is that your repair amounts pool themselves in SE4, instead of working on individual ships.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Taera:
i tend to agree there - perharps MM should ban stellar manip. retrofitting?

This can be modded. You can give the stellar manip components the space yard ability, but with no value so they can't actually build anything. This way the game will restrict you from retrofitting to a design that has one.

I suppose it could be a problem doing this. It would allow someone with a stellar manip comp to trigger a retrofit. Although I dount anyone would build ships with stellar manip comps for this purpose. Seems kind of silly when a real space yard is way cheaper.

The only other problem is the AI would probably get confused and try to build stuff in the build queues for these ships. Which would would make the ships not move since a ship can't move if it's got something in it's build queue.

Geoschmo

---

Ok. Use a Dreadnought or Baseship hull and put in a SY component. Doesn't stop much now.

[Askan Nightbringer]

Originally posted by spoon:
I can imagine the conversations at Fleet Central:
High Wormlord: We need a Warp Point opener and we need it NOW!
Navy Command: Yessir! We are building an empty hull right now.
HW: Isn't it quicker to put the components in first?
NC: Oh no, we do that later. See, they are putting in the Ion Storm Generator now.
HW: But I want a warp-point opener!
NC: Right, but it is much faster to first install this Storm Generator, and then remove it after we pay the bill.
HW: What?!? Hey, why are you installing eight cloaking devices?
NC: Don't worry, we'll take them out as soon as they are paid for.
HW: I need a drink

-spoon

I'm with you on this Spoon. I find the whole retro-series things the most bizarre concept in this game. Whether its unbalanced or not I don't care but its just silly. There are hundreds of quite amusing real world analogies on what's the game seems to be modelling here.

Askan

[busdrivinbilly]

I have to say, whether "gamey" or not Retro series can have a significant impact. Most people here have been talking about using it for Stellar Manip ships, but I think it is more (or at least as) useful for colony ships.

With Hardy Industry and 120% Construction and Adv. Storage I can have "good" homeworlds that produce 1 colony ship per turn. An empty colony hull with 1 cargo bay costs 3850, and a "good" homeworld with Adv. Storage can have 3900 rate to start.

Build 1 Base with 3 repair components at the very start and you are on your way with 1 colony ship per turn/ per homeworld.

Even with "average" homeworlds you can do it if you are willing to go Engineer put construction at 125%, go with Hardy Industrial, etc.

Then of course when you produce new shipyards in new sectors you can do the same thing using "emergency" build and produce 1 colony ship per turn at those planets as well. This can lead to an almost exponential expansion given a little room to spread out.

Of course these type of techniques are the most useful on larger galaxy sizes where the ability to expand quickly can equate to a significant advantage before you ever meet another player.