Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by capnq:

quote:

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If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally

In other words, not at all. Twinkies are forever.

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Really? I wouldn't know. Twinkies in my house are lucky to Last long enough to get out of the wrapper. MMmmmmm, Twinkies.....

[jimbob]

SJ:
You are probably more than aware of this, but most of the science fiction explanations for FTL actually attempt to by-pass the vessel actually going faster than light. For example in ST they wave their hands about, spinning a yarn about some sort of warp bubble - the bubble goes faster than light because it's a tachyon (or equiv.) bubble that must go faster than light. The bubble and everything within it moves FTL relative to the rest of the universe, but the stuff inside the bubble remains moving at sub-light speeds relative to other stuff within the bubble - ie normal matter is never moving FTL. SW employs a similar sort of side-step on the issue of FTL with hyper-space being non-normal space with a unique set of light speed restrictions.

Therefore, within the majority of Sci-Fi genres, the actual (normal matter) vessels never go up to nor do they ever pass the speed of light themselves. As a result, time neither slows nor reverses for them (relative to objects at a hypothetical rest, whatever that's supposed to be).

For example, if we hook up a drive capable of what would be ten times the speed of light to a Twinkie, and send it five light-years away and back (ten light-years total distance), we'll see it re-appear in ten years time, and history will not be changed, but the Twinkie will only have aged one year. No humpback whales will be saved.

Now what's all this about Humpback whales being saved by Twinkies? Is there some sort of nutritional requirement on the part of FTL whales that I wasn't aware of?

[ December 04, 2002, 23:11: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Wardad]

Is this the famous Twinky defense? Or Offense?

[PvK]

Name := Tachyon Twinkie Torpedo
Description := Twinkie packaged in a tachyon bubble that allows it to travel faster than the speed of light. This tends to confuse and distract enemies, when they even notice, which isn't very often. Some get hungry, some get sick, and some enter into distracting discussions about the shelf life or the temporal side effects the super-fast twinkie may have.
Pic Num := 665
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 1
Cost Minerals := 10
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 1
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 9010
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 665
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Twinkie Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Weapon Damage Type := Disrupt Reload Time
Weapon Reload Rate := 50
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 665
Weapon Modifier := -90
Weapon Sound := ttt.wav
Weapon Family := 665

[PvK]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
...
Time *appears* to slow down for the other object.
If a ship moves past a planet, who's to say the planet isn't moving past the ship instead. The time dilation works both ways. That's all I'm saying

Right, each has a different frame of reference, reciprocal, in some sense. What the limits of the relationship are though is the question.

We were already talking about FTL. The ability to magically accelerate past the speed of light was a given in this problem. Given that assumption, the rest is reasonable, eh?

Sure, because even the assumption isn't well defined, and there isn't really any complete understanding of what occurs. Only theory, at best.

I agree that the ship will appear in ten year's time. I also agree the whales will not be saved. I do NOT agree that the twinkie will be roughly one year older.
If the twinkie were travelling at a non-relativistic speed, it would age normally. If it were travelling at a very high sublight speed it would age less. If it were travelling at the speed of light, it would not age at all.
So, faster must make for younger.

That's where we disagree. However, I would say that it depends on both the theoretical physics postulated, and also the means by which you achieve FTL travel. I was assuming quantum mechanics and no Star Trek physics, and also that the Twinkie would be accelerated conventionally, not by some futuristic device that achieves motion without an accelerating force. Given my assumptions, I believe I'm right, that if you give something enough acceleration so that (if we ignore quantum effects for a moment), the Twinkie would be accelerated to ten times the speed of light, the effect from the Twinkie's frame of reference is exactly as if there were no limit of the speed of light, except that in addition to moving past the universe very quickly, the universe actually seems to be aging faster. That is, not only does the Twinkie not go back in time, it actually goes forward in time, like everything does. It arrives later than it would expect from it's own clock readings - IT is what is younger, not the universe.

That is, not only is Star Trek making up devices, and physics, it is loosely basing them on theory and getting it backwards.

I agree though that if you're talking about a "warp drive", then you can make up any side-effects you like.

PvK

[Kamog]

Originally posted by capnq:
Twinkies are forever.

I agree: Twinkies Last forever if a human doesn't eat it. Try unwrapping a Twinkie and leaving it beside the sidewalk. Look at it two months later and it will still be there, looking exactly how you left it.

[ December 05, 2002, 02:52: Message edited by: Kamog ]

[Taera]

Twinkies are forever

This discussion is TOO scientific for me.

[KirbyEF]

I like twinkies, really.... But what does not have to do with this Surface Mod?!?!?!?

Can we talk about the mod, please?

KirbyEF

[jimbob]

Well, okay,

So the larger the object, hypothetically the more twinkies it should be able to contain. However the actual surface area of the object can have a huge effect on the internal volume (with the maximal volume to surface ratio being appreciated by a sphere). As such, Borg ships should, on average, be able to carry more twinkies per kT of hull plating than can the Enterprise. Star Destroyers should have a reasonable ratio, whereas mon Calamari cruisers should have a slight edge over them. X-wing fighters and Tie-fighters are not so good for Twinkie transport, but of the two, I'd give the prize to the X-wing (removal of the R2 helps in this regard). In the end, you can count on the pilot eating the lions' share of the twinkies anyway, unless it's a Wookie pilot - then you're guaranteed that there will be none delivered to the destination.

-jimbob

[Krsqk]

Theoretically, injecting twinkies directly into the warp core should allow a ship to surpass light speed, given that twinkies in their matter state contain more energy than any energy known to man/woman/person/humanoid/sentient lifeform.