Wishlist: The Next World War

[Suhiir]

I've used similar systems (a squad level game I had in the late 80's I no longer recall the name of) in the past and they can work fairly well to represent the initiative generally demonstrated at smaller tactical unit levels.

But to represent Command & Control? Maybe ...

It might work well if a military uses a centrally organized structure and deviation from "The Plan" is discouraged, i.e. the classic Soviet system, because because lower level commanders aren't taught, encouraged, or permitted to exercise independent judgement. But to assume all military organizations work that way couldn't be further from the truth. SAS, SEALs, Spetsnaz, and similar forces are expected to act based on their own judgement and assessment of the situation. A loss of links to higher command has zero effect on their ability to act, yes, it may well degrade (severely) their ability to act in the most efficient manner and time, but their ability to act ... not a whit.

I'm biased, always have been, I was a Jarhead, we're also taught to assess situations and act without waiting for orders. So I have a certain amount of difficulty comprehending not operating that way.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

If you wanted to simulate something like this or even diffrent command & control for diffrent time periods / countries you could resort to pen & paper & rough orders plus a command system.

I'd rather go the route of visibility restricted to an indivdual unit's view as the framework to build upon command & control.

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[Imp]

Originally Posted by shahadi

I'd rather go the route of visibility restricted to an indivdual unit's view as the framework to build upon command & control.

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How would that work you still see the overall picture so can react to it.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

How would that work you still see the overall picture so can react to it.

You only see what your units see. If an enemy is in view of a unit you see it. If he is out of view you don't see it.

Similar to the T key, you can target what is in view.

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[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by shahadi

You only see what your units see. If an enemy is in view of a unit you see it. If he is out of view you don't see it.

Similar to the T key, you can target what is in view.

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Isn't that how it works now? or am I missing something?

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

Isn't that how it works now? or am I missing something?

Say, a unit is spotted by your ATK helo...then it moves behind a building. On the next turn that unit behind the bldg is visible to you (that's "God view") while the helo can't see it or target it, but you the player can see it.

I envision visibility defined by what a unit can see. Then, when you select a unit that is what you, the player sees. This would be the framework.

If the scenario takes place say in 2015, and you are playing a dominant power, say the UK or USA, then you have "God view." But, if you are playing an insurgent group then you see only what your unit sees.

If you are playing a Viet Nam or Korean scenario, you only see what your unit sees.

You recon and scout assets are valuable are indispensable as they should be.

That's the "two cents" description.

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[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by shahadi

Say, a unit is spotted by your ATK helo...then it moves behind a building. On the next turn that unit behind the bldg is visible to you (that's "God view") while the helo can't see it or target it, but you the player can see it.

I think that something like what the Combat Mission series will be a good alternative to that. Say, your unit moved in the vehicle range of the helo. Instead of that unit being visible wherever in ends the turn, a marker is placed in the hex (it will be either infantry or vehicle marker) the unit was spotted. That way you'll see where the unit passed, but not where it ended the turn. The markers will last until the end of the player's turn.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Aeraaa

I think that something like what the Combat Mission series will be a good alternative to that. Say, your unit moved in the vehicle range of the helo. Instead of that unit being visible wherever in ends the turn, a marker is placed in the hex (it will be either infantry or vehicle marker) the unit was spotted. That way you'll see where the unit passed, but not where it ended the turn. The markers will last until the end of the player's turn.

Interesting...a visual aide.

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[Mobhack]

I could code the game so that if you select Bill, then only the units known to Bill would show on the map, swap to Fred and only his contact list appears. Save games would then jump by 2000 bytes times 2000 to add an individual LOS list to all units, or thereabouts. We would then have to code in some fancy contact-passing rules so that Bill could eventually tell Fred about his contact #121, say faster if they were in the same platoon, and neither was suppressed, or whatever.

However, the player is free to jump around the units to his hearts content for as long as he feels is necessary to build up a picture. As he does so he will integrate each unit's displayed target list in his brain Mk 1.0. And then he will happily jump to Observer Pete, who has none of Fred's or Bill's targets in his LOS list (yet) and plot a bombardment on what looks like empty space to Pete when he is selected, but the player knows is occupied by Fritz in his Tiger.

Hence the simple model used by SP - once detected and in LOS, the target is available to everyone. No vast amount of extra saved data, no fancy target-passing rules. Because the player will effectively bypass all of that stuff. And the AI does too, because individual LOS lists would add layers of complexity, and its having a hard enough time as is.

Now if there was an option to turn it off and use the "one sees all sees" basic model then 95+% of end users would.

Same as the optional orders system of SP3 - 95%+ of end users never bothered to even switch it on. Which is why it never made it here, as the coding effort is not worth the hassle for what would be a niche option that just a few die-hard grognards would utilise. But I rather liked it, as it was a system that showed off the advantage of the Germans in 1940 vs say the French, with the Germans able to switch the target marker about much more readily than the staid French player, the latter therefore being more tied to his "grand battle plan" pre-laid out at the start. But 99% of end users just want to charge around the battlefield as they wish and blast stuff..

[Aeraaa]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Same as the optional orders system of SP3 - 95%+ of end users never bothered to even switch it on. Which is why it never made it here, as the coding effort is not worth the hassle for what would be a niche option that just a few die-hard grognards would utilise. But I rather liked it, as it was a system that showed off the advantage of the Germans in 1940 vs say the French, with the Germans able to switch the target marker about much more readily than the staid French player, the latter therefore being more tied to his "grand battle plan" pre-laid out at the start. But 99% of end users just want to charge around the battlefield as they wish and blast stuff..

I have to say the SP3 system sounds VERY appealing to me as well.