Questions by a MP Newb

[Soyweiser]

Normal barbs is 10% huge is 20%.

And you make very dangerous assumptions about the diplomatic ties you have with your enemies.

And there are a lot of situations where the amount of provinces you get are not limited by your scales etc at the start, but by your location in the game and how your enemies expand. The 3-4 additional provinces might not even be there.

And your math is WAAYYYY off. 400% means you have 4 times the amount of provinces you normally have. Not 3-4.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

And your math is WAAYYYY off. 400% means you have 4 times the amount of provinces you normally have. Not 3-4.

If you loose 10% of the population a turn from 1 barbarian attack. that means(also it becomes smaller) that means that you loose 10% income from the 100% income you get from one province. 400% is regarding the one province you loose population from a barbarian attack. (not to mention that if you have 3-4 of your starting armies already done with the expansion they can deal with attacks quite well loosing 10-20% of the income from 1 province every 5 turns (when you get an attack)lets say) so overall that would net to(its decreasing every time since 10% of 90% of the population is 9% the next time but you can ignore that for now for simplicity)
Anyways that would net to 320% of the output from 1 province for 80 turns.

If you have 4 more provinces from inital expansion that is + 400% of the income from 1 province(I refered to 1 province since you were talking about 10% of the province population)(That obviously does depend on location but thats why I said if you can use the scales to make it faster then thats better for you not to mention that if you are a bless fraction you need the points to roll over some other nation)

About diplomatic ties with your enemies. I use logic if someone is careless enough to attack a previously owned province of yours, thus making himself an enemy for you. Then he either doesn't care about you(meaning you are too weak to do anything) Or he is making a mistake and you get to choose wether to punish him by going to war or to gather more strengts.(I'd rather have someone take my ex-province if im at war rather than attacking me straight out)

And if I were on the other side and I dont have enough resources to go to war with someone who just had a barbarian attack taking a province of his at our borther. I wouldnt risk taking it and making an enemy(Unless I was already planning to attack him)In which case its irellevant anyways.

[curtadams]

I find with misfortune the only acceptable option is to have enough PD that the barbs lose. Expensive, but with good order affordable and it does have benefits when you're getting invaded.

[Soyweiser]

What? Huh?

I really do not understand your math.

320% the output from one province?

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by curtadams

I find with misfortune the only acceptable option is to have enough PD that the barbs lose. Expensive, but with good order affordable and it does have benefits when you're getting invaded.

Any invasion that can be stopped in any way by pd isn't an invasion. It is an enemy telling you he should be destroyed.

If you cannot take pd, you didn't scout. If you didn't scout you are not prepared for war. If you are not prepared for war and start one, Sun Tzu cries. If Sun Tzu cries, you die.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

What? Huh?

I really do not understand your math.

320% the output from one province?

Read it carefully again and you might get it. If you loose 10% of the population from a turn from a barbarian attack. And you have 4-5 armies everywhere it takes you 2 turns at most to get to the province to retake it right?
Also a barbarian attack happens every 5 turns lets say Although thats too often but we are assuming worst case scenario-avarege.(assuming order 3 ofc). So every 5 turns you'd loose 20% of the population which is 20$ less income right?(early game there arent huge hords and late game you have thugs to kill them off)

So you loose 20% of the income from a single average province every 5 turns.What does that make in 80 turns?

[Soyweiser]

I get what you are trying to say. But your math is simply wrong. getting 3-4 provinces more than your enemies is a 30-40% overall increase in gold. (Assuming normal 10 provinces each). Not 400% (or 320% or whatever).

Add to that the upkeep and hiring costs of the armies, the replacement cost of units that get killed by the barbs. Temples, forts under construction. Costs you lose by getting pd killed again and again. population loss by events (10% each time) increase of unrest by the attacks in your lands. And the amount of gold you get isn't that great.

Saying and then defending some sort of magical 400% increase is stupid.

The only real bonuses the additional provinces give are denial of those provinces to your enemies, and sites (and thus gems).

The huge horde of barbarians and the normal one get unlocked at turn 10 and 5. So both of them are available early game.

And having one or more SCs tied up fighting random invasions is a huge cost.

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

I get what you are trying to say. But your math is simply wrong.

You obviously don't get what I'm saying. Ok really simple now:

I'll give an example. You have a 10 provinces. each one of them produces 100 gold. Then you get a barbarian attack(reducing the population of 1 province by 10% for each turn it stays there).
It takes you 2 turns to deal with an invasion. So that is 20% less population from one of your provinces. Now you have 9 provinces producing 100 gold and 1 producing 80. ok?
That process happens every 5 turns. so by turn 10 one more province would have 80 gold income rather than 100. So that is 20% loss of the income of ONE PROVINCE every 5 turns. By turn 80 of the game time, because of the barbarian attacks happening every 5 turns that would make you have a 320% loss of the income of ONE PROVINCE = 320 gold less. (obviously not accurate but for the purpouse of giving you example) So your income by turn 80 having 10 provinces that initailly produced 1000 gold would be 680. So we are at turn 80 and your income has dropped by 320% of the income of ONE PROVINCE. That is an overall income drop of about 30%(not accurate).

Now about the case where you convert those misfortune scales into 4 more provinces. I

if you get 4 more provinces producing 100 gold(generic province lets say) that would mean that you'd be getting 1400 gold.
After the first barbarian attack(as with the example above) you would be getting 1380 gold. After 80 turns of barbarian attacks you'd be getting 1080 gold. So overall if you manage to convert those 80 points of design scales into 4 more provinces you'd overall be getting more gold than with taking misfortune even at turn 80.(and then you can convert that gold you have gotten into much more)

[bbz]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

I get what you are trying to say. But your math is simply wrong. getting 3-4 provinces more than your enemies is a 30-40% overall increase in gold. (Assuming normal 10 provinces each). Not 400% (or 320% or whatever).

Add to that the upkeep and hiring costs of the armies, the replacement cost of units that get killed by the barbs. Temples, forts under construction. Costs you lose by getting pd killed again and again. population loss by events (10% each time) increase of unrest by the attacks in your lands. And the amount of gold you get isn't that great.

Saying and then defending some sort of magical 400% increase is stupid.

The only real bonuses the additional provinces give are denial of those provinces to your enemies, and sites (and thus gems).

The huge horde of barbarians and the normal one get unlocked at turn 10 and 5. So both of them are available early game.

And having one or more SCs tied up fighting random invasions is a huge cost.

I agree about it having costs like replacement for units and other stuff but I was just showning that its not as bad as you presented it to be. And I'd take denying 6.4 (assuming default 40% magic sites and that each magic site produces 1 gem) gem income to my enemy for 80 turns(that is 512 gems) than all the gold you loose by replacing army members(if you are loosing any but with a good precision strike you shouldnt be loosing many)(with 512 gems you can have 5 well equipted SC's patrolling by turn 80 and you only need 2 to cover everything)

About the upkeep, you cannot really disband your early game expansion armies so you loose that upkeep even if you dont get the attacks, getting attacks actually can reduce your upkeep(suicide unwanted units with high upkeep if you insist about being precise about the upkeep.) (That is assuming you are at peace) Otherwise having 1 army at the back ensuring you recapture provinces might be troublesome.

[bbz]

P.s @Soyweiser: I didn't mean to sound patronising or bad in any way. I just can't let things go and I have to make other people understand what I mean or what I wanted to say. Which sometimes leads to what happened now

I hope now after all that you'd get what I mean and where I was comming from