How turn Dominions from a niche game to an MMO

[Sombre]

Yeah a few people have said that about Tollund. Who knows though. Who cares.

[Foodstamp]

Normally I wouldn't. But it is fairly obvious it is being used to attack another forum user with anonymity.

[Sombre]

Well the last time that happened it was Gandalf attacking himself, so I don't know how sympathetic I'd be anyway :]

[Foodstamp]

No matter who it is, it is pretty lame.

[Gandalf Parker]

Of course as an alt-troll he would simply be feeding me straight line points for me to follow up on.
Such as....

One stop taking over for half a dozen servers would have its drawbacks.

A couple hundred dollars might replace MY server but I definitely would never say something like that about the others.

And as I said, an official Shrapnel server would not be just for a couple hundred dominions games.

And the cost involves more than just buying a good computer. There is also hosting, bandwidth, and paying for the programming.

Then there is the admining. If nothing else, the various fan-run game servers and the mp forums show the amount of administration it would take. Ask anyone who has done it and quit.

Much less the amount of time for being the official "referee" for such games which would also occur.

A few hundred dollars for a server? And that to run various games that are almost a decade old. With a couple of new ones in the works Im guessing they would have to be considered now also. I dont KNOW that they support internet and/or pbem but that is fairly standard for games here.

--
Just what I always wanted. My very own bunny rabbit. I will hug him,
and pet him, and squeeze him, and name him George.

[Tollund]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

One stop taking over for half a dozen servers would have its drawbacks.

Why are you assuming that all of the other servers would no longer exist?

And as I said, an official Shrapnel server would not be just for a couple hundred dominions games.

Why not? What other games do they have with a large PBEM multiplayer contingent?

And the cost involves more than just buying a good computer. There is also hosting, bandwidth, and paying for the programming.

Bandwidth? What is this, 1993 and the era of Compuserve? Consumer bandwidth via the cell phone network is around a cent per megabyte. I'm sure that any company that can manage a webforum can afford to send a few thousand emails a day.

Then there is the admining. If nothing else, the various fan-run game servers and the mp forums show the amount of administration it would take. Ask anyone who has done it and quit.

Gandalf, just because you haven't figured out how to automate things doesn't mean that it's impossible for others to do so. Have you ever even looked at the Llamaserver webpage? Almost every admin option needed is right there for the people who are actually playing the game.

Much less the amount of time for being the official "referee" for such games which would also occur.

Referee for what? Automatic servers don't care about game disputes between players.

A few hundred dollars for a server? And that to run various games that are almost a decade old. With a couple of new ones in the works Im guessing they would have to be considered now also. I dont KNOW that they support internet and/or pbem but that is fairly standard for games here.

Well, they are supposed to be supporting their games. That is, after all, the only reason that a developer would bother with a publisher in this day and age.

[slMagnvox]

Kind of curious about this thread, of course largely hypothetical, and why not get it back on track after above derailment.

Originally Posted by alhorro

It's not so easy to make a niche game widely popular.

Shrapnel marketing has always been surprising me. I can't understand why it was llama who'd made the server, but not the official devteam. Additionally it's quite easy even for a single lazy web-developer to make a user-friendly web-interface for finding games, diplomacy, tracking results, etc. After launching such services Shrapnel could buy some articles in popular gaming resources, launch ad and SMO campaigns.

However, in my opinion, it's still possible to make Dominions popular and profitable.

Find a venture investor.

Hire a good manager, some decent interface designers, as-coders and several PR/community managers.

Convert the game into a f2p browser flash game. Seriously. Flash is just enough to handle Dominions client-side. It's also about 50 times easier to make changes and improvements.

Make a killer-ui for everything. Easy-messaging and trade in one-click, auto-saving, history, statistics, gamefinding and subfinding tools, blogs/forums for every game, and much more. Translate the game into all major languages.

Keep tracking players' results with exp system. Allow unlocking some nations, pretender/ingame bonuses, general options with levelling, or alternative buying (this system is most efficient in mmo, proved many times). Bonus points limit is customizable for every game. Levelling gives you several random bonus options (like skills in HoMM, or cards in various CCGs) while purchasing allows getting any particular bonus you want instantly. Exp system also motivates for efficient games and subs, no staling.

Host special games regularly — megagames, interesting scenarios, mods, tournaments. Charge some money for participating.

Maintain massive ad and SMO campaigns. One banner with a hot chick and loud words on some popular entertainment site could bring more players, than all our puny attempts to convince friends to start playing.

Dominions have small, but very loyal and selective community. And we could be a base for a much bigger startup.

It was important to quote all of that because this poster, alhorro, has a very good grasp of how money is minted with a video game in the 21st century. Imagine for a moment this could actually be done, a whiz bang, super friendly web UI for Dom3, digital distro, and llamabeast on the payroll. An aside, thanks llama! I am gonna click your donate button after I post this, I really like how the OP phrased his contribution to the community. Have a few pay to play features, a little grind or two that can be avoided by a payment, even something simple like a fun avatar or unlocking Bogarus. Achievement badges, a player tracking system, it is amazing how simple database results displayed as a graphic can make people invested in a community, into a product.

Hah, I don't play games like that generally. Kingdom of Loathing is the limit of my experience, and I never paid for any content there. But it functioned along those line and must've had over a 100k users (a random guess) ... in fact here is a quote from KoL at wikipedia:

Between 2006 and 2007, the game hosted a player base of approximately 140,000 regular users and 190,000 active accounts. It is also particularly notable for managing to be financially successful purely from donations and the purchase of virtual goods rather than from advertising or subscription fees like many online games.

Pretty impressive I'd think. And as a game, KoL could be considered an extremely niche game. But what does niche mean when we apply it to Dom3? It is my estimation that Dom3 is niche because it has priced itself into a niche. Stranger and less compelling gameplay has garnered much more mainstream success. And price of entry has a lot to do with that.

And while I don't pretend Dom3 will receive such treatment, I am at least happily imagining a modern UI, after just scripting a mid game Tien Chi army with 20+ commanders and 300 troops all arriving from seperate provinces and hoping to affect a communion, a modern UI that would even reduce the amount of clicking I just did by 10%. That and a neat little newbie icon by my name that I would hope to upgrade. Also a little personal hall of fame page with my best commanders and their kill counts.

But I digress. So much could be done, and the future of this industry is really at the intersection of brilliant gameplay designers like our friends at Illwinter, community development, and marketing/pricing models endorsed by alhorro.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Tollund

Why are you assuming that all of the other servers would no longer exist?

They might. But not nearly at the same level. Based on the experiences of other games that have gone to official servers.

And as I said, an official Shrapnel server would not be just for a couple hundred dominions games.

Why not? What other games do they have with a large PBEM multiplayer contingent?[/quote]
At the time of the original one, SEIV had much more of a pbem contingent. And thats if you want to consider them limiting the game to pbem. I thought the bigger/better thing was in play here.

Bandwidth? What is this, 1993 and the era of Compuserve? Consumer bandwidth via the cell phone network is around a cent per megabyte. I'm sure that any company that can manage a webforum can afford to send a few thousand emails a day.

Actually you are talking about the developers managing the cost. And a hefty investment/payback is more along the line of what Shrapnel exists to avoid.

Gandalf, just because you haven't figured out how to automate things doesn't mean that it's impossible for others to do so. Have you ever even looked at the Llamaserver webpage? Almost every admin option needed is right there for the people who are actually playing the game.

Huh? Almost everything on my server is massively automated. Arguably more than LLama's. Try looking thru the "problem with" posts and the responses.

Referee for what? Automatic servers don't care about game disputes between players.

Ahhh yes. That is so obvious from the mp threads. And the many "please fix" which are often tried to shift to the server. Even more so if it was an official server.

A few hundred dollars for a server? And that to run various games that are almost a decade old. With a couple of new ones in the works Im guessing they would have to be considered now also. I dont KNOW that they support internet and/or pbem but that is fairly standard for games here.

Well, they are supposed to be supporting their games. That is, after all, the only reason that a developer would bother with a publisher in this day and age.[/quote]
Why? Seriously. Because you want it that way? Pick a forum for ANY game. Not just here. Especially ones with official free servers. The love is just rampant.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by slMagnvox

It was important to quote all of that because this poster, alhorro, has a very good grasp of how money is minted with a video game in the 21st century. Imagine for a moment this could actually be done, a whiz bang, super friendly web UI for Dom3, digital distro, and llamabeast on the payroll.

Actually I quite agree. Id really like to see it done. And the many ways I mentioned that it could also be funded. Surely some internetneur is looking for such a concept.

[S.R. Krol]

Step 1. Dominions 3.
Step 2. Microtransactions.
Step 3. Profit!

It's that time of year, isn't it? Someone comes along and has the secret to bring the awesomesauce to Dominions 3. And while it's nice to see folks suggest taking the game to a higher state it should be noted that it seems to always be based on a faulty assumption that Dominions 3 is this mysterious, unknown game to the world at large and if only (INSERT LATEST IDEA) happened, then Dom3 would be bigger than the pope.

First off turning it into something in which you have to pay-to-play, no matter how small the amounts are, is going to be a huge turn off to a lot of folks. Free always trumps pay. Again, even if the amount is trivial there is still the psychological effect.

Next, frankly for a niche (and I'll get to that point in a moment) title Dominions 3 is already doing fantastic. It was released in September 2006 and continues to sell just as strong. It is still mentioned at gaming websites and the few periodicals left. Multiplayer games are constant. How many mainstream games from 2006 can say this? For an indie game it has been a huge triumph.

As far as being niche, make no mistake, this is a niche title as 99% of strategy games are now (the other 1% being games whose title has "Meier's" in them). No matter how big it may seem in the grand picture it's still a very tiny fish.

One last thing. As a company we are of course interested in revenue, so don't you think that if we saw value in something we would do it? I'm not saying that specifically about this particular MMO idea, but just in general. We're not the new kids on the block and we are continually evaluating the environment. So have some faith.