MA Man in latest CBM

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

I find it hard to believe wardens everywhere instantly obsolete Man's longbows and knights- or even necessarily the other infantry. Look at Bandar Log, white ones are are basically the poor mans (everywhere recruitable) wardens, and they hardly define the nation. Yes, they are quite a bit worse, but they are also much easier to mass and compete against other troops which are generally much less attractive.

Hmm, if their armies consist of knights and co still then this is not a big boost probably. I personally like them better as nonbless nation, so that's not a big deal imo. Their real problem still remains lategame. If they got a 100%asn (enables you to get into mr-spells as an alternative to lightning + moonvines) pick on their everywheres instead of an and a3n2 instead of a2n3 on the crones you your god wouldn't have to cover every magic path even those the nation allready has.

Also I don't think making monks cheaper is good. I'd spam them at their vanilla cost. Additional stealth is nice though.

[Meglobob]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

Better stealth is also quite possible (though personally I consider that a minor consideration compared to price).

I would prefer better stealth and the price remain the same, the more stealth they have, the more likely I would recuit them.

I think having wardens recruitable everywhere (to guard the mothers) is perfectly thematic.

[Mojo the Avenger]

What if:
Wardens and Lords unchanged.

Mothers become cap only
Mothers buffed a little to be thuggable, maybe given a 50% chance of astral with slightly increased hit points and price?

Crones changed to be:
N2A1
+1 @ 100% in nature or air
+2 @ 100% in their current paths
+1 @ 25% in their current paths

Daughters changed to recruit anywhere, given +2 instead of 1n +1 in their current paths

Cheaper knights

These changes would give man strategic flexibility, a sprinkling of water and earth, and make them a true power in air and nature, but the powerhouse mages would be old and not particularly thuggable because of their age and hp

Further, this means wardens, knights and lords are all likely to be used.

[Kuritza]

How about borrowing a bit from LA Man and giving MA Man some scholar with a minor access to Astral and Earth? A mediocre researcher with a 25% chance for 1S and another 25% for 1E.
Or perhaps a 'learned monks' theme - give these monks same 25% chance to have 1E or 1S. Its not much, but even S1 is a big boost to a non-astral nation.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by quantum_mechani

Better stealth is also quite possible (though personally I consider that a minor consideration compared to price).

Every little helps And if given say 10 stealth, I can see the Monk having a use again (at least from my view). As that would make it more difficult to discover him and any troops he may be leading, and if you are using him for stealthy preaching, you won't have to keep sending him back in when his current 0 stealth makes him get discovered all the time.

Originally Posted by Kuritza

Or perhaps a 'learned monks' theme - give these monks same 25% chance to have 1E or 1S. Its not much, but even S1 is a big boost to a non-astral nation.

Quite like this idea, although maybe the theme purists would take issue (although it could easily fit in with their transition to LA). Maybe 25% ES or 25% E and S is a bit much, but if the Monk had say 10% chance of getting S, then that would see them getting recruited for sure. As landing just one of those S1's would make a world of difference to MA Man.

[thejeff]

What I've long thought about for Man is something that would tie into the Curse that's on LA Man. Some particularly horrible late-game summon that could have unleashed the curse, perhaps.

[Lurker_at_Threshold]

Originally Posted by thejeff

What I've long thought about for Man is something that would tie into the Curse that's on LA Man. Some particularly horrible late-game summon that could have unleashed the curse, perhaps.

I always thought it would be cool if MA Man could summon Oberon's court and the high royalty of the Fey. Their departure could have been the cause of the drain during the LA, as the witches were removed from their main patrons and sources of power.

[AreaOfEffect]

Increased stealth is always a consideration of mine. In many cases it will trump gold cost.

Also, Oberon's court sounds like the most interesting way to increase magic diversity in my opinion. I'm all for it.

[Kuritza]

Wouldnt that be unfair to their step-brothers, the Thuata, who get their hero-god Lugh as a national hero?
Also, that Oberon dude just begs for Air/Nature paths. Just what Man needs.

[thejeff]

The idea I'd had was undead Formorians. Tied in to Man as the enemies of the Witches former teachers (and rulers?) And already with a Curse of their own.