inf assault

[valo2000]

what should work is a mortar barrage in front of your tanks. pinned troups can not assault. they still have their AT weapons though.

[c_of_red]

No silver bullets Lt. Ketch. What works in one game won't in the next. I can even say what worked last turn might not work this turn.
If you want a 'rule of thumb', Overwatch. Try to put higher experience level units up front. Move that 'point' ONE hex at a time, right clicking thru your frontal arc. You will still get fired at by surprise ever now and then. The key is what happens if you get shot at and survive.
I have an ambush post somewhere ( Blitz, I think) and I'll try for a synopsis her.
1st don't panic.
2nd, don't do ANYTHING yet with the unit that has been ambushed. Take your hand off the mouse and scratch something with it.
Take these steps in order
3.A) see if any other units can fire on the hex you are being ambushed from. Don't need a target or LOS to one, 'Z';'key will do fine, you are trying to get some MORE suppression on the bushwacker. Remember, if the ambush failed, the ambusher has suppression. If another unit has LOS, you prolly can see the bushwacker.
3.B) Rally your ambushed units
3.C) Try moving another units to where the Bushwacker has a LOS, you are trying to break it's target lock.
3.D) Now is the time to select your ambushed unit. If you rallied them, either take a shot or move, or both, what ever seems best to you. This will change according to circumstances.
3.E) blow smoke and run like 'ell.

You can also use a 2man scout section or weapons team in a vehicle with lots of MP's as cannon fodder (ambush fodder? Tripwire Charlie?) by moving them close, 2 or 3 hexes to a potential ambush site and unloading the bait. This will cause SOME units to OP fire. Remember loading and unloading burns MP's equal to the units men ever time, so it affects how far you can go in a turn. I stretch this out by using multiple vehicles and scout teams. 2 or 3 is about the max, which means a scout platoon stays together and scouts 1 axis, which is what you want to do anyway. Plus you need help when you get ambushed, which will happen no matter what.
The only way I can think of to completely avoid being ambushed is to find an opponent that promises not to set any. Or a FNG that doesn't know how. If you do, promise to share them?
Setting an Ambush is too lenghty a topic to get into here and now. Check out some of the tactics guides and see what they have to say.
The key is to not panic, get thru the moment and take advantage of it.

[Lt. Ketch]

Thanks, Valo. I always try to have mortars in my group and this will give them something productive to do.

C_of_Red,

Originally Posted by c_of_red

No silver bullets Lt. Ketch. What works in one game won't in the next. I can even say what worked last turn might not work this turn.

I realize this. Heaven knows how many times I've pulled something off to have it blow up in my face the next time. I looking for some of the things that players do for variety's sake, more than for a silver bullet.

If you want a 'rule of thumb', Overwatch.

Good rule of thumb. This is something that I certainly need to work on. Thanks for a good step by step on having it happen.

I have an ambush post somewhere ( Blitz, I think) and I'll try for a synopsis her.

Thanks for the run down. It is a good refreasher. I use 3E the most. Needless to say, I go through my fair share of smoke gernades

Remember loading and unloading burns MP's equal to the units men ever time, so it affects how far you can go in a turn.

I knew that load/unload burned MP but didn't know how much. Thank you for this info.

The only way I can think of to completely avoid being ambushed is to find an opponent that promises not to set any. Or a FNG that doesn't know how. If you do, promise to share them?

Sorry, no promises. But at times I consider myself in this catagory.

The key is to not panic, get thru the moment and take advantage of it.

I don't know how many are fimilar with Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy, but your advice is proven in the series. Not that anybody ever follows it, but it's good advice none the less. Thank you.

For anybody else that would like to contribute, I'm looking for ideas and what people are doing out there, not the proverbial cure all. My tactic was to avoid playing MBT all together to avoid the heartache and grief that comes from this, but seeing as it's just too tempting to avoid playing, I have taken to fielding only a few MBTs and other vicheals or playing eras that don't have ATGMs. My current PBEM opponent will tell you when we're done with this game that his T-55s walked all over my infantry company because I didn't have much to counter them. So I am turning to the educated, experienced, and formitable combatants of the forum for what has worked for them.

[Imp]

Question for anybody out there. As a fairly new player to MBT (playing mostly WW2) What means to you employ to counter AT threats whether (just of you Suhiir ) they be ATGM long shots or RPGs behind trees? Is it how you deploy forces? Scouts attached to your Armoured formations? Nuking everything in front of you with rockets, bombs, shells and HMGs? What works the best for you?

Probably your best option is to find God & pray
Seriously esp if think you are entering ATGM territory overwatch in the sense of infantry on the ground with a LOS to possible locations, basically everywhere . In ideal circumstances the vehicle does not test the water unless several eyes are there to spot the firer & foot sloggers are best at this.
Once you find it pinning will stop fire or at worst reduce to 1 shot so pull out your vehicle by reversing if need be.
On that point if its untested terrain lead vehicles should never use there last MP as if fired on you are kippered unless pre TI & have dischargers.

[Suhiir]

I find that armored HUMMWV's work great for flushing ATGMs.
Their size makes them hard to hit.

Once the enemy MANPADS run low or out of ammo helos seem to make the best overwatch units, and if they're armed they do well at supression too. I always disable any non AT weapons on helos during the enemy turn so they have shots available during mine. And disable their AT weapons as well if I moved them during my turn (if they moved more then a pop-up during my turn they seldom hit).

Since I commonly play the USMC I usually have a fair number of Scout/Sniper teams which are excellent for both spotting and the occasional sniper shot at ATGMs or MGs.

The real "key" is overwatch, overwatch, and more overwatch.

[gila]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I find that armored HUMMWV's work great for flushing ATGMs.
Their size makes them hard to hit.

Once the enemy MANPADS run low or out of ammo helos seem to make the best overwatch units, and if they're armed they do well at supression too. I always disable any non AT weapons on helos during the enemy turn so they have shots available during mine. And disable their AT weapons as well if I moved them during my turn (if they moved more then a pop-up during my turn they seldom hit).

Since I commonly play the USMC I usually have a fair number of Scout/Sniper teams which are excellent for both spotting and the occasional sniper shot at ATGMs or MGs.

The real "key" is overwatch, overwatch, and more overwatch.

So an occasional pop-up with a scout helo far back will spot,and then smoke them rascals with arty.

[c_of_red]

AFAIK, helios don't see things ( observe, search) as well as leg units. Sort of between a ground vehicle and a leg unit. Or at least that is the way the original SP2 worked. Not sure if that was changed or not during the port to windoze. What little testing I have done says 'no', but an 'expert' told me I was wrong. I think it is confusion created by the term 'spotting'. which in the real world means seeing something but in the SP world it means calling artillery and nothing else. I suppose that helps keep the confusion level down, at least if everyone is aware of the jargon.
A thread at the blitz went past the post limit on this topic. It seems every SP player ( about 15,000 on the 'net, and growing) has an opinion on this topic.
No absolutes in SP. I like to 'hide' my FO's, 2-man scouts, sniper teams and snipers. By hide I mean find a hex with concealment (cover is better, but sometime Mars isn't that helpful), redline your weapons and stay quite as a mouse at an Ally Cat convention. I have had enemy tanks park in the same hex. I have had AH's hovering over an FO while it called in arty.
So you never really know how much of the enemy you are seeing at that moment. Nor do you know how much of your force he can see.
FoW.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by c_of_red

AFAIK, helios don't see things ( observe, search) as well as leg units. Sort of between a ground vehicle and a leg unit. Or at least that is the way the original SP2 worked. Not sure if that was changed or not during the port to windoze. What little testing I have done says 'no', but an 'expert' told me I was wrong. I think it is confusion created by the term 'spotting'. which in the real world means seeing something but in the SP world it means calling artillery and nothing else. I suppose that helps keep the confusion level down, at least if everyone is aware of the jargon.
A thread at the blitz went past the post limit on this topic. It seems every SP player ( about 15,000 on the 'net, and growing) has an opinion on this topic.
No absolutes in SP. I like to 'hide' my FO's, 2-man scouts, sniper teams and snipers. By hide I mean find a hex with concealment (cover is better, but sometime Mars isn't that helpful), redline your weapons and stay quite as a mouse at an Ally Cat convention. I have had enemy tanks park in the same hex. I have had AH's hovering over an FO while it called in arty.
So you never really know how much of the enemy you are seeing at that moment. Nor do you know how much of your force he can see.
FoW.

Yup, if you "redline" your weapons it's actually fairly easy to keep units hidden. In fact since I use the CD version I spend a lot of my set-up time assigning ranges and fire limits (via the armor min/max and unit type settings) telling my units who they're allowed to shoot at and when.

And yes, helos are HORRIBLE at seeing (not spotting for arty) non-firing enemy units. But I've found them very good at seeing those units that do fire.

One thing that undoubtedly effects this massively is that I've modified my non-transport (i.e. Light Attack, Attack, and COIN) helo formations so that they have a bonus to their experience and sometimes morale.
My reasoning is very simple. The "best" helo pilots are the ones that fly the attack helos, "average" pilots fly transports.
Given that I play the USMC 90% of the time I'm not playing a pre-set scenario the base morale and experience is already 80 so adding 8 (a mere 10% increase over the base) to this virtually guarentees vet status to my helos. Yeah, the unit cost goes up slightly, but supposedly the game balance isn't effected because the total unit cost for each side doesn't change...I will have less units in terms of total numbers then I would have. So far my testing and experiments are giving me pretty much the results I want and expect.

[c_of_red]

"My reasoning is very simple. The "best" helo pilots are the ones that fly the attack helos, "average" pilots fly transports."

Maybe. I think that depends on what you mean by best. My Son and a Nephew are helio pilots. My son is flying Blackhawks now in the DC area. I think his 2 year tour is up this fall,, then it's off to an operational unit. When he was in Iraq, he was a Weapons officer in an Apache. After flight school, he was assigned to the Helio pool that the Pentagon uses. I'm not sure what Squadron that is.
My nephew was shot down twice in Iraw, winning the Silver Star the second time. He flew the bird he was assigned to. He is IP qualified in the 58, 60 and 64. I last saw him about 2 years ago when he was back here recovering after being shot in both legs ( same round. I suggested he change his call sign to 'daily double') In his unit, they don't have a bird for each pilot. More pilots then helios, with a pilot being assigned to a helio by whatever methood the operations officer used. He could be flying a scout one day, a BlacKhawk the next. He said the Apaches were mostly assigned to officers and being a ring-knocker didn't hurt.

[c_of_red]

I haven't played around much with the new range features. I should, since seems to be less risky then redlining. Ever now and then redlining will bite you in the butt. I'm real interested in what looks like the old Squad Leader 'bore sighted' feature. If it works the same way, it would be an excellent way to kick off a layered ambush.