You can't complain that this game is costly

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Theonlystd

And the whole Dom3 will give them the best cost to play ratio.. Thats a horrible argument cause not everyone will like dom3.. Its a great game for me but not something everyone is going to like. So they gotta take into account prices and such.

No, they need to play the demo. I didn't buy Dom3 until I realized that I couldn't enjoy other games anymore. I was bewitched, ensorceled, and seduced.

Last I checked, no one wanted to hear anyone complain about the graphics. If your friends directly relate graphical quality to gaming enjoyment, then they may as well shovel out $30 at a time for whatever titles are falling off the best seller lists. And they can do that over, and over, and over again. Meanwhile, I'll still be playing Dom3.

<3

Oh and PS- The graphical "style" perhaps isn't what is in vogue right now, but most of the sprites are actually rather high quality, and most of the maps (not random maps) are quite lovely. They just don't jump out at you in full 3D and yell BOOM HEADSHOT. :P

[Edi]

The argument for buying Dom3 presupposes that you actually like fantasy TBS games, else why buy it in the first place? I detest race car games and I wouldn't buy them at even a $1 price tag, no matter how good graphics, controls, physics simulation etc etc. Hell, I wouldn't take one of those for free unless to give as a gift, because they take up space I am not willing to allocate to them.

The costs of development vs other games where millions were used is a total non-starter, because the ones that do get that kind of budgets are mass-market games while Dom3 is a niche market game. If you had any real competition in this niche with other comparable games, price reduction might be necessary for Dom3, but so far I haven't seen much in the way of viable competition and neither apparently have Shrapnel.

As far as the positions expressed in this thread, I don't think anyone is about to change their positions much. It's been discussed before and it never happened those times either.

So in that respect it's going to be

[JimMorrison]

That horse isn't dead, he's just napping.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Nonsense. Your computer is necessary hardware to play any game at all. Therefore, the cost of the initial purchase must be ameliorated out over the cost of each game/hour.

Nonsense. I didn't buy the computer to play games. Whether or not games even existed, I'd still have bought the same laptop. So in my case (and in the case of my friends) that's like claiming you have to factor in the cost of optical prescriptions + a pair of glasses, your normal trainers or years of eating relatively healthy food to work out how much value for money a game of football is.

In your case Sombre, I think it's pretty simple - you can gauge your friends' tastes. Either they won't get deeply enough into Dom3 to appreciate it at its fair price - or they will. I can't imagine that anyone who likes TBS fantasy wouldn't go head over heels for Dom3, just like the rest of us have.

So, while you can argue that the purchase of the software (and CD-key) required to play Dom3 is more expensive than the software of some other games, the stigma of "costly" erodes rapidly when you look closely enough at what you get, for what you pay.

I understand more than most what you get when you buy dom3 and I don't see it as being great value for money, despite it being one of my favourite games. All of my other top 10 games are far cheaper. Most games I would objectively consider better are also cheaper. There are games directly comparable with dom3 (well designed fantasy strategy games with lots of content) which are all a lot cheaper too.

You could say that about any game 'if you get really into it, it will be worth the cost'. It has nothing to do with this discussion. Even if I could convince my friends to take a punt un such an expensive game, which I seriously doubt, I can't be sure that they'd get deeply into it, as with any game. It's far less of a risk for me to ask them to buy a cheaper game. Especially when there are plenty of cheaper games that are as good as dom3.

[Tifone]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

I was bewitched, ensorceled, and seduced.

Hey, same effect on me too ^^

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Oh and PS- The graphical "style" perhaps isn't what is in vogue right now, but most of the sprites are actually rather high quality, and most of the maps (not random maps) are quite lovely. They just don't jump out at you in full 3D and yell BOOM HEADSHOT. :P

Actually, I must say I like the graphics a lot. Can't explain why but I fall for them. I always liked 2d (Abe's oddissey, besta frigging game eva) and Dom3 has a lot of quality sprites. Yeah random maps could be better, they could have used the "old style map" effect of some of the maps instead of those strange trees and mountains around on my paper

PS hey, I may be wrong but I didn't see you around these last days Jim. If I'm right welcome back ^^

[HoneyBadger]

I'd suggest you invite your friends over to the forum, Sombre. You don't have to buy the game to register. If we can't convince them it's worth atleast giving the free demo a chance, then they probably really *are* a lost cause.

I'd also hope that you've found some friends here as well-as the forum really would be less without your presence and extensive contributions.

As far as what the game is actually worth, in my case, I'd say out of everyone, I'm getting the most "bang" for my buck, when it comes to Dom3. I'm not even able to play the damn game, and I'm still here almost every day, having a great time building mods and being as social as I generally get (work for an airline for a few years, you learn to appreciate life without so many people in it, and you also learn to appreciate and choose positive people in a positive environment).

So basically, even if I didn't physically own a Dom3 CD (it's getting dusty on the shelf behind me), I'd still be getting entertainment value out of it. Plenty of education too (I now know more about African history and culture than I ever thought possible, and I'm a better artist.). And it's even comparatively healthy, psychologically, as these forums are a nice distraction and stress-reducer while I'm working.

And I second Jim-I can't get in to other games anymore, like I get in to Dom3. I can't even get in to other forums. This forum is like an island of calm and refinement in a very scary, very stupid universe.

Still, you're right that taken as a game, it's more expensive than many, and will remain so. But I contend that it's better considered as a hobby. Hobby-wise, it's very cheap. Owning and restoring a vintage Dodge Charger is a reasonably cheap hobby at around 15,000 or so. You can buy a small boat for the same price, if you'd rather sail. Various other hobbies (cooking, sports, books, sex, drugs, rock&roll), you'll probably spend 15,000 on them over the course of an average lifetime. There are plenty of more expensive hobbies out there, and for a lifelong preoccupation, 15,000 isn't terribly unreasonable for something that you own and identify with, and that's a part of who you are.

Frankly, if the Devs offered up the complete source-code for Dom3, to be used on a strictly non-commercial basis (as in we couldn't sell it to others, and could only share our versions with others who had paid the fee), at $15,000 a pop, I'd think long and hard about ways I could raise that much money, and then if I did, I'd spend even more time and money learning to write code for it, and trying to convince colleges and libraries that it was worth their investing in it too.

That's roughly 300 copies of the game at the price I bought it (including taxes). No small amount of money (more than 10% of the cost of my house), but taken as a hobby, as something that was a part of my life and my identity, rather than as a game, not entirely an unreasonable price.

Ofcourse, working for an airline as I do, I could just take a discount flight to Sweden, sit on the Devs' couch, and try to pitch what a great asset I'd be to Illwinter

Sid Meyer never invited me over to his couch, the bastard.

[Theonlystd]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

No, they need to play the demo. I didn't buy Dom3 until I realized that I couldn't enjoy other games anymore. I was bewitched, ensorceled, and seduced.

Last I checked, no one wanted to hear anyone complain about the graphics. If your friends directly relate graphical quality to gaming enjoyment, then they may as well shovel out $30 at a time for whatever titles are falling off the best seller lists. And they can do that over, and over, and over again. Meanwhile, I'll still be playing Dom3.

<3

Oh and PS- The graphical "style" perhaps isn't what is in vogue right now, but most of the sprites are actually rather high quality, and most of the maps (not random maps) are quite lovely. They just don't jump out at you in full 3D and yell BOOM HEADSHOT. :P

i dont find the demo to be the best representation of the game and well its a nonstarter with the games price .

And graphics dont have alot to do with the enjoyment of the game for them. But those fancy graphics are a large part of why games with the spiffy graphics cost 50,60 dollars. You have to have a team of artists for quite some time to work on em.

The sprites arent bad.. But id hardly say the "style" isnt in vogue.. This "style" isnt going to suddenly become in style again.. 2d sprites arent going to make some kind of come back..

And i pretty much play exclusively on random maps and they look pretty meh..

[Aezeal]

yeah the free demo should be enough to see if someone likes the game or not.

PS anyone who says the graphics are a strong point of dom 3 is nuts.. they did nearly the best they could with it as they are (though some modders are slightly better) but you don't play this game for the graphics.

Honey you wouldn't buy the code.. you can't even buy your own computer to put the game on dammit

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Of course, working for an airline as I do, I could just take a discount flight to Sweden, sit on the Devs' couch, and try to pitch what a great asset I'd be to Illwinter

Is that a threat? I believe the restraining order prohibits it.

[Gandalf Parker]

But the argument that its not everyones game doesnt argue for lowering the price, it argues for leaving it the same. The amount of lowering of a profit margin has to create a larger gain in sales in order to make it a good move. The more you lower it, the more gain it must create. On games with a ceiling on sales (such as a specific small market) you have to go with basic cost+profit sales price.