Cataclysmic Dragons - Page 4

Rathar · #31 August 19th, 2008, 01:14 AM

I agree that dragons in dom 3 have a deflated value from both dom 2 and "reality." I think that you will find more success in creating "balanced" new dom 3 dragon pretenders if you go for a cross creature sort of ability set, such as fear 5, awe 1 and claw/claw/bite magic attacks, and then each dragon type has their own abilities such as the iced base dragon being immune to cold, bit o extra damage to fire and a cold breath weapon.

Too much special weirdness and whatnot will end up with things that cost 300 points to be "balanced".

HoneyBadger · #32 August 19th, 2008, 02:17 AM

Don't worry, I'm going to spend a lot of time balancing the dragons out. For now, I just want to get the art done-the most time consuming, exacting, and brain-numbing part-but everything will follow from there.

All of the dragons will be individual and unique from one another-and as much as possible, different from other creatures in the game.

Wrana · #33 August 19th, 2008, 09:30 AM

Understood about what you meant by making them demons. Though you certainly remember that St.George, being slightly higher in level than the above-mentioned bishop, still used his lance, not holy words.

I certainly agree that "Dragon" tag would be very good. Though I think that they won't implement it until Dom4 in any case...

In any case more dragons would be good. Especially if they can partly fill up the niche for endgame summons for paths other than Death and Blood!

I take it that you are also making them one-of-a-kind, right?

thejeff · #34 August 19th, 2008, 10:04 AM

I like the idea of more impressive dragons, though I don't share all your prejudices about dragons.
Don't blame Tolkien for talking dragons. He was working from mythological source. Fafnir spoke in the Norse myths. I can't remember if the dragon in Beowulf did.
Chinese versions of dragons often talked and played a very different role than medieval European ones. That's probably also where the idea of dragons taking human form comes from.

And from a literary point of view, a villain who can talk and has a personality is more interesting than a simple destructive monster, however powerful.

As for dragons being demonic, to the medieval Christian anything supernatural was either divine/angelic or demonic. If you're going to classify dragons as demons based on that, everything magical should be
demonic. Including many of the non-human races and most summons.

And despite the scoffing here, Tea with the Black Dragon is a really good book. I read it a long time ago. Highly recommended. Except maybe for those who want their dragons only as destructive forces of nature. Even the dragons get bored with that after thousands of years.

sector24 · #35 August 19th, 2008, 11:48 AM

Just a fun fact: Fafnir could talk because he used to be human. The Andvaranaut cursed him to kill his father, banish his brother, and become the dragon.

http://www.cleandungeon.com/article.php?anum=475

thejeff · #36 August 19th, 2008, 12:08 PM

I thought he was a giant actually, but the concept is the same.

Aezeal · #37 August 19th, 2008, 01:16 PM

nice pics.. wish I had 8 hours for a picture.. would really help my dominions 3000 mod.. but sadly that ain't the case.

HoneyBadger · #38 August 19th, 2008, 01:55 PM

Well, those 8 hours were also spent earning a paycheck and cleaning the house

The volcanic dragon isn't the only one with 4 arms

And Tolkien didn't invent the idea, he just popularized it, and I'm not criticising him for that. Without Tolkien, Dom3 probably wouldn't be in the same form it currently is, if it existed at all. It's other authors and artists who have gone on to take the heart and soul out of dragons, for reasons of sentimental commercial popularity.

Dragons talking is fine, dragons taking tea is fine too, but dragons as toothless cartoons or melodramatic soap opera stars or even beasts of burden, doesn't sit right with me at all.

By the way, this thread in no way is intended-or should be taken-as a criticism of the Devs, Dom3, or even the way dragons themselves are portrayed in the game. There's about a million different areas of the game that took a great deal of attention to get right, and if Dom 3 had been all about dragons, I know we would have had some truly spectacular examples.

I'm just working on a very narrow focus here, which they didn't have the great luxury of taking, and I wouldn't be able to do that, if all the other elements in the game hadn't come together so well.

So thanks, as always, Kristoffer and Johan, for making this all possible.

Aezeal · #39 August 19th, 2008, 02:26 PM

my paycheck sadly includes activities that are not compatible with making art or drawings etc.. if I could make art or drawings in the first place that is.

If this is done you can always create a dom 3000 nation

.. if the art is done and you make a thread like the gazillion you already made with general ideas and stats I'd make a .dm file out of it in notime

Nikelaos · #40 August 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM

Very nice job for paint, I know full well how difficult making images in paint is and you seem to have worked very hard.

Btw would you like for me to touch them up a bit in a more effective tool, i ain't got nothing to do and i really do have the urge to help.

oh and aezeal i wouldn't mind making pics for your dominions 3000 mod.