A Poisoner's Guide to LA Pythium

[quantum_mechani]

Ironhawk said:

No thats not how the Fire bless attack works. Its an extra attack that is, I believe, 9AP fire damage rather than a bonus applied to each attack the unit currently has. So since the Hydra already has 9 attacks, adding another one isnt really that much of a boost.

It's applied to each attack. That's why jagaur warriors are so deadly.

[Endoperez]

I think you're wrong there Ironhawk, on both Fire and Water blesses.

Flagellants, Warriors of the Five Elements, Vanir etc etc are all blessed, and I've always heard mentions of how multiple attacks make Fire 9 that much more powerful, and half-joking comments about the deadly flaming hooves. It's 6 points of AP fire damage in addition to each attack's normal damage AFAIK. It's like #specialeffect mod command.

In one action, one unit may target one square. All 9 attacks of a hydra would be directed at units in this square. Quickness gives another action, and thus another square to target. So W9 would give you double the killing power than the hydras would otherwise have.

[Ironhawk]

Whoa you cant be serious about the fire bless! I could have sworn I remember extensive threads on the subject and then like KO or JK weighing in and saying that it was a bonus attack, like hooves. Has my memory just completely gone? Am I senile now?

Yeah are definitely right about the water bless tho - not sure how I fumbled that one. Regardless, I do stand beside my recommendation not to use high blesses. Whether or not I remember them right, I ran tests with high blesses and I was unimpressed with the added performance given thier cost.

[sector24]

Fantastic guide, Ironhawk. There are some very interesting strategies in there I didn't consider leveraging. Almost makes me want to play LA Pythium again...almost.

[MaxWilson]

Ironhawk,

I remember that thread about F9 bless too. I remember being surprised that hooves apparently *don't* get the flaming bonus because they're not the primary weapon. (This has huge implications for jaguar warriors--it may be the case that a F6 bless is almost as good as F9, and a lot cheaper.) After this thread I'm not sure what to think, so as soon as I get home I'm going to mod myself a sacred unit with St 0 and send it against another unit with Prot 6 and 100% Fire Vulnerability. If fire bless effects primary and secondary attacks, the damage should roughly double when I add a secondary weapon (because the non-fire damage will be almost 0).

I'll report back when I have evidence.

-Max

[Raiel]

Love the guide, Ironhawk! Just one question...

'Next you should research Arrow Fend and find a mage who can cast it in order to protect said Hydras. If you havent found one from a site, research Const 4 and build a booster for one of your air Theurgs. '

If I'm not mistaken, all non-unique Air boosters are either A4, F4W4, or S6. Those are all pretty expensive for arrow fend. So it seems like a pretender, nature summon or indy are your only options. What am I missing? (I love the idea of protecting my hydras' hides from the pesky, pinpricks of piddling archers, but...)

Also, I think natpy and Endo are correct... there are nine forms for the hydra, so the combined HP total should be 88 (40 + (8x6)). This only underscores your original assertation of toughness, though.

[MaxWilson]

Okay, the short version is that the F9 bless affects hoof attacks (and presumably, all secondary attacks).

Longer version: I modded 3 Eponi chieftains to be sacred, with maxed attack values and two hoof attacks doing zero physical damage. I took an F9 bless and had my prophet cast Divine Blessing at the beginning of combat (then retreat). I used Shift-K to kill off all the real opponents in the battle, and Control-U to insert a common archer #33, modded to have 1000 hit points, morale 99, and 100% fire vulnerability. I re-ran this combat several times. Variance in the damage was high, but with two flaming hooves (zero physical damage), the archer seemed to take about 50 hit points of damage per round. With one flaming hoof it was about half that. Eliminating the fire vulnerability brought this to 25/12, again with very high variance (50 points some rounds, 6 on others).

F9 bless affects all melee weapons. This is good news for jaguars, etc. I imagine D9 is similar but I have not tested it.

-Max

(Mod script follows)

-- Test fire bless
#selectweapon 8
#nostr
#att 25
#dt_cap
#dmg 0
#end

#selectweapon 56
#nostr
#att 25
#dt_cap
#dmg 0
#end

-Eponi Chieftain. Comment out one of the 56s to remove a hoof.
#selectmonster 1207
#enc 0
#prot 40
#holy
#weapon 56
#weapon 56
#end

-- Archer, I think.
#selectmonster 33
#hp 1000
#enc 0
#fireres 100
#mor 99
#end

[MaxWilson]

Raiel said:
If I'm not mistaken, all non-unique Air boosters are either A4, F4W4, or S6. Those are all pretty expensive for arrow fend. So it seems like a pretender, nature summon or indy are your only options. What am I missing? (I love the idea of protecting my hydras' hides from the pesky, pinpricks of piddling archers, but...)

I don't know about boosters, but Arrow Fend is A3, 100 fatigue. It seems logical to throw together a 3-man Communion and burn an extra Air Gem. 2 slaves, 1 master with A1, boosts the master to A2 whereupon you can cast Arrow Fend. A staff of storms would be better (one A1 mage can cast Summon Storm Power to boost himself to A2 without a communion, plus Storms also impair missile fire automatically) but requires A4 to forge, which you've sort of ruled out already. However, it WOULD let you boost all of your Air mages. Combine the two approaches and you can have A3 without burning any gems, which means Thunderstrike is castable.

-Max

[Lingchih]

Thanks much Ironhawk. I had considered PM'ing you about writing a guide such as this, since I am playing LA Pythium in two MP games right now, but did not want to impose on your time. This totally eclipses the little scatter-shot guide that I had written.

I differ with you on pretender choice... I still think an awake PoD gives you better early expansion... two, then three indy annihilation forces with your second group of hydras, but agree on all other points.

I had not realized the milite were so good, instead spending my valuable resources on elites. I will correct that in the future.

I also don't take the misfortune 3. I have been burned by it in another game, and won't use it again in MP. The chance of early tragedy is small, but if it happens, you are screwed. I take misfortune 2 instead.

[Aezeal]

Well.. I'm wondering..

As you all know (or not) I've developed a praticular hate for triple blessed jaguar warriors (fire/water/astral all 9) I wonder how hydra's stand up to them.. (I think pretty bad) then I wonder how triple blesses (well against mictlan you don't even really need the air bless) hydra's do against them

I would think the triple blessed hydra's would end up being SC killers/SC (at least thugs) themselves and might keep up being viable till late game when your research allows you more buffs.

The different heads protect from some damage-kill spells I'd think (gift from heaven) so main problem would be real one-shot kill spells