LA Utgard guide

[Viajero]

cool, thanks for the BO, I ll be trying it now. the main prob I have with a N9W9 strat is that Utgard does not have water gem income from start and I am forced to alchemy to the water site search spell (voice of auspex or something like that that requires 2) or to wate a scratii for manual search.

Also, by researching first gem searching spells are not you delaying a lot research in construction?

Also, a few other questions:


1- What would your pretender look like in this case? (i.e. dominion, scales)

2- Asuming your gem search research goes well, at around what turn you tipically switch to construction research?

3- The thread suggstes strongly a thug strategy, but how do I go about effectively implementing it? i.e. do I take 3 or 4 equipped jarls or similar alone? or do I use them alongside woodmen in an army formation?

4- Castles, assuming a no problem expansion initially, when would you propose to build the second castle?

[Dragar]

I don't think using a skratti for manual search is a waste, you only need to do it to get 1 or 2 gem income, then set him back researching until you have conj 3, whereupon he casts Apsu.

Likewise I see no issue delaying construction. By running a heavy bless your woodsmen are very effectively early. And jarls are pretty effective just with the bless itself as minor thugs - your prophet skratti certainly can be. This way once you have the construction research you also have the gems to build with. Those levels of research also allow you to support with mages in combat, in particular Alteration, quickness and body ethereal make your giants substantially better

1 - I'm afg, roughly I think I have, in CBM, an imprisoned Earth Mother E9N8, Dom 6, Order 2 Sloth 3 Cold 3 Growth 1 Misfortune 1 Magic 1. That could be off slightly on either misfortune or sloth

2 - Not sure exactly, would have to check in game.. probably around the late teens, depending how aggressively you site search vs research

3 - This is situational.. for raiding purposes, against PD, an individual thug or two would suffice. In huge battles you are better off mixing with troops and mages. For medium sized battles somewhere in between.. the philosophy I've taken with sloth 3 is that I'll be relying quite heavily on thugs/mages once I'm big enough for my cap only woodsmen not to be the mainstay of my forces. Certainly given the high regen, especially skratti with a shroud, it is worth having your thugs in groups or with troops, to avoid damage getting focused, so that your regen can do its thing.

4 - Again, situational, depending on strategic needs and how much cash you are gaining from expansion. Once you can build your dom limit of woodsmen plus a norna each turn, save the excess until you can build a castle, and get cracking. It should happen within the first year. Alternately if you find a good rush target, let their capital be your second fort In both my current games I've started attacking someone before a fort is complete, and have spent spare cash on PD and indies to support the invasion. In one of them I have spent a heap of cash on amphibious and subsequently aquatic troops, starting adjacent to an inland sea bordered by no aquatic nations.

[Dragar]

One last note on delaying construction - utgard has no earth, and thugging out a heap of jarls and skratti without hammers is very expensive. Waiting a while gives a better chance of acquiring hammers, either through trade or pretender if using an earth bless. Even getting 2 or 3 of them makes a big difference. If you research construction straight away you will find your natural gem income doesn't go very far at all, having no hammers and having neglected site searching.

[Viajero]

Thanks again for the advice. I will try defering construction then. When you mention aquiring hammers by trade, I take you mean via an eventual Empowerment or relevant path increase items made with earth gems?

Also you mentioned amphibious units to expand on indy water provinces. What type of army you assembled there for that? numbers and unit / leader types?

Regards,

[Dragar]

by trading i just meant trading for hammers directly, if yuo really suck at earth it can be the easiest way

The water provinces I just used some aquatic troops available as indies from a conquered province. They wouldn't do against a water nation, but get a bunch together and you can take out most indy water provinces

[Endoperez]

In case you aren't familiar with CBM, it's short for Conceptual Balance Mod. It changes pretender, scale and spell balance. While starting to use it requires quite a bit of relearning, and makes manual much less useful, you can only use scale and/or pretender parts. They make the game more fun.

[Viajero]

You mean the Hammer of the Mountains? or maybe the Gate Cleaver?

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Viajero

You mean the Hammer of the Mountains? or maybe the Gate Cleaver?

dwarven hammers, used in forging for a 25% cost discount.

[Viajero]

Thanks for all your advice. I have tried tio apply it in my current test solo game and these are some of the findings:

1- N9W9 bless with a Son of Ferne imprisoned pretender
2- Woodmen with regeneration and Quicken as bless are a very effective grinding machine as long as I protect them from focused dammage
3- At turn 30 or thereabouts have finsihed researching for gem search spells plus Alteration 3 and turned now into Construction but it ll be a while until I reach level 4 or 5 in it.
4- Have not been able to use thugs so far as not equiped yet, so my army is heavily (almost solely) relaying on woodmen. Have expanded to around 20 provinces and have just built my 3rd castle.

Is there anything that can be done to accelerate thugging? or is this pace expected?

[Dragar]

I am surprised at your research rate - I'm in a game atm turn 21 have all the site searching plus alt almost to level 4... And until last turn I've only been recruiting mages in the capital. Your expansion rate looks a bit slow too

What scales do you have?