Newbish question

[GrudgeBringer]

Question:

why wouldn't I want Earth 4 on my set up so I can forge medium artifacts?

If I have say Earth 4 and Death 5 are my Magic users a LvL 4 and LvL 5 in those right off the bat?

If not how do I get them to level 2 or 3 or 4 ect?

Is it like Commanders when they would 'Level Up' because of exp?

I guess I am a little confused because It doesn't seem to say " Level 4 water Mage" ect.

The other thing that confuses me is that iF they are NOT LvL 4 Mages in Earth (example) then how can they forge Items at a Lvl 4 pace?

[Wick]

Various items require various paths at various levels.

Your pretender's paths do not effect the paths of your mages.

Mostly not at all, path booster items for most of the rest, and burning gems to empower them when you really need to.

Experience somewhat increases attack, defense, research, and more but does not effect path levels.

Are you confusing research levels with path levels? Your research unlocks spells which can them be cast by a mage with sufficient paths.

[Endoperez]

There are two kinds of limits for spells and items: research requirement, and path requirement. Level 0 items are trinkets, and mostly require level 1 or 2 in a single path. Items from Construction 2 are minor and often only require level 1 in a single path, but some take level 3 (Enormous Cauldron of Broth takes Nature 3), and Soul Contract is very expensive (Blood 6 Fire 1, so 65 slaves and 5 fire gems).

Similarly for your mages, once you have researched level 4 in Evocation, all mages know the spell "Blade Wind". If they have 3 levels in Earth magic, they can cast it. If they have Earth 1, they can't. But if you give them Earth Boots (for +1 to Earth) and make them cast Conjuration spell Summon Earthpower (for +1 to Earth), even mages who only have one innate level in Earth can cast Blade Wind and other E3 spells.

Earth isn't very important for good items, but Earth 3 gives access to Dwarven Hammers which make all further forging 25% cheaper. They are supposedly one of the most important items available, often traded for in multiplayer if your nation can't forge one, and Earth-wielding pretender is a good choice for any single-player games where you want to try your hand at forging items.

[MaxWilson]

GrudgeBringer said:
If not how do I get them to level 2 or 3 or 4 ect?

Is it like Commanders when they would 'Level Up' because of exp?

I guess I am a little confused because It doesn't seem to say " Level 4 water Mage" ect.

The other thing that confuses me is that iF they are NOT LvL 4 Mages in Earth (example) then how can they forge Items at a Lvl 4 pace?

In many cases, they can't, and you have to live without them or (in Multi-player games) trade with other nations. Dominions is pretty strong on "thematic" nations that do not all behave the same, and so you can't build other nations' troops and you often can't forge the same magic items or cast the same spells as other nations. (I love Master of Magic and Master of Orion, but it's true that as the game goes on, all races tend to converge to the same general playstyle--except for the ones who took super-advantages like Creative in MOO2. Dominions tries to avoid this and I think that's valid.) As you gain more experience and/or read guides on these forums, you'll gain more insight into this. "Aha! Helheim has recruitable Air mages with hand slots. That means I can count on giving Winged Boots to slow commanders and/or SCs."

That said, just because your nation doesn't have e.g. E5 mages doesn't necessarily mean that you can't forge E5 items. This comes in two flavors: either you don't have enough levels in a path (E4 instead of E5) or you don't have a path at all (no E mages). If you don't have enough levels, you can potentially empower some mages, but it's more common to try to get enough levels, gems, and Construction research to forge some path-boosting items. If you don't have the paths at all, you can typically either 1.) recruit independent mages (for low-level items, like S1 (S=Astral) w/ Sages if you don't have S on your national mages), although you can't always count on finding the right indies, 2.) put the paths on your pretender, or 3.) try to "boot-strap" into that path by summoning creatures with that path and having them forge path boosters to boost them high enough to summon something *better* in that path then they are, then moving the path-boosters to the new creature, and repeating. This takes a lot of gems, Construction research, and Conjuration (or sometimes Enchantment) research.

By the way, some people don't like having independent mages in the game, because letting you boost yourself out of a path you don't normally have (Helheim with Nature magic) can be "unthematic." You may or may not come to feel that way, too, eventually.

-Max

Edit: the hand slots on Helheims's air mages are important in the sense that it means they can hold Dwarven Hammers forged by Helheim's Earth mages. This means they can forge *cheap* Winged Boots. Sorry, should have been more specific.

[GrudgeBringer]

I am progressing (at a very slow pace) and once I learn one thing it makes 2 other questions.

1. I finally figured out the magic paths....However, I have forged the 'Dwarven Hammer', 'The Crystal Coin', and the Thistle Mace.

Usually in most games other Stategy Games I would put them (or at least a couple of them) on my BEST Commander.

But in this particular game I get the feeling these are used to further the Magic Paths rather than making a 'Super General'.

OK...I tried adding these items to my Commander (Prophet but non magical)and Nothing.

So I tried adding them to my other Commander who is a Amazon Mage and the crystal coin DID raise its Astral level by 1. But the Dwarven Hammer NOR the Thistle Mace added a magic level or (since it had neither Earth or Nature to begin with)gave it a magic path in those disiplines.

SOooooo, I added it to my best Druid (I am playing Marvini) and it would add a level in the astral or the nature BUT my mage was a E4 Druid and the dwarven Hammer Did NOT add another Earth level.

So I ask...what the h"&#* do I do with these items.

I have read about them, I understand what thier purpose is BUT I don't understand HOW to best use them I guess.

Any help would be appreciated...(and remember I am as dumb as a rock in this game).

Thanks!!

[Tuidjy]

The hammer does not increase the magic level. It lets you forge items with fewer
gems. The item that will increase your Earth magic level is the pair of boots that
you can forge with 10 earth gems at Construction level 4. With the hammer, it will
take you only 7 earth gems.

For an example of using the thistle mace - you have a druid with nature level one.
Give him the thistle mace, and now his magic level is two. He could cast, every
turn, the spell "Haruspex", and he would discover all nature sites (if any) in the
targeted province. Or in combat, instead of casting:
Eagle Eyes, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, Vine Arrow, etc..
he could be casting
Eagle Eyes, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, Storm of Thorns, etc...
which not only has higher range, but also half a dozen extra projectiles.

Of course, the above example is very simple... but to get really good, the best way
is to jump in a MP game, and when your favorite army gets wiped out by something
that does not break a sweat, learn.

[kasnavada]

Hum I think the question you wanted an answer to is this one :
Booster only boost if you already have some magic in that path.

There are different types of magic bonus. The "nature bonus:1" and equivalent boost magic if you already have some path in it. If you give a 'thistle mace' to someone with no nature magic, he has no clue what to do with it, and will use it as a dumb club and try to clobber his ennemies with it.

The second type of magic bonus is : "contruction : 25" or something like it. It means it reduces the cost of casting construction spell on the worldwide map by 25%, rounding down.

The first one concerns a type of magic, the second one a school.

[Endoperez]

The Construction Bonus, Enchantment bonus etc etc only appear in sites. The bonus Dwarven hammer gives is Forge bonus, and it affects all items.

Hammers are most useful when you are forging expensive items like Staves of Elemental Mastery (25+25 gems, about 18+18 with hammer) or Rings of Sorcery (40 gems, 30 with hammer)

[GrudgeBringer]

OK, that makes sense and now that you mentioned it I DID read somewhere that eht D Hammer was used to cut the cost of forging (At least I have the Forging part down).

But what do I DO with the hammer?

Once I Forge it SOMEONE in my army must use it to make it work....right?

Now If I give say a lvl 4 Forge Constuction item that raises the N lvl 1 notch to a lvl 6 mage that has N magic...
will it work or will it only work if the mage has LOWER than the Forge Construction rating?

I can't wait to play MP and have no fear of taking a Whoopin (as I am already getting my A** kicked by the AI which in the forums everyone says is not tough...SIGH.

But i would like to understand the dual bless, summoning, and Blood slaves first as I have the sneaking suspicion that without understanding these things I will last about 4 minutes!!

Thanks guys, you HAVE helped push me in the right direction.

Like I said, I learn one thing and 2 more questions arise.

But I really have read everything I could on these forums, Read Baalz's (I think thats how its spelled) excellent strategy's for different Races, and have started over like 30 times after learning something every time I play.

I think my problem is I have always played Strategic war games that have weapon strength, windage, Terrain ect but I have very little exp with magic (other than neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale ect and then I still didn't play the Mage).

So understanding this may take me a little time and I appreciate the time and patiance that everyone is taking to help me!!

[thejeff]

You use a Hammer whenever you want to forge something. Give it to the mage doing the forging, put it back in the lab next turn (or use it to forge something else.)

If I'm understanding your question properly, you can give any path booster to any mage with at least one level in that path and it will work. (As long as you can give it too him, that is he has the proper slots open.) A Thistle Mace works just as well going from N9 to N10 as from N1 to N2.