Why Not Digitial Distribution?

[Jazzepi]

S.R. Krol said:

Any perceived hostility arises not from the idea, but from the fact that we've been selling the game since September 2006 with no current plans for digital distribution, and even though we continue to say that this keeps coming up.
Could that change in the future? Sure, anything is possible. But as of right now there is only one way to purchase the game, and that's as a physical copy. Why this is such a point of contention for some people, I don't know. What I can tell you though is that the game has sold quite well since release, and continues to sell quite well, as a physical product.

I don't understand how you can run a company and say "Ah, well, we're doing good enough, no reason to look into establishing digital distribution, something we do for all our other games, for our flagship product. No, we have no plans for that in the future."

That's just silly. If I were an investor, I would be furious D:

Especially in lieu of actually listening to your customers.

Jazzepi

[Agrajag]

Here's a list of reasons why Digital Distribution is bad.
I don't work for Shrapnel Games, so I'm making all sorts of assumptions.
1) If you want the manual shipped to you after you download the game, it becomes more expensive than just shipping the game and manual, because no costs are saved on production, and bandwidth costs are added (and bandwidth is not cheap.)
2) If you don't want the manual shipped to you, then there will be a sizable amount of players that will play the game without a manual. These might enjoy the game less, since they will have a weaker understanding of it, and they will give the game a bad name.
3) Furthermore, there will now be an excuse for not having a manual, so all the pirates that "lost their copy" won't be immediately spotted on the forums
4) Without a physical manual, the CDKEY is just a number transmitted to you once, with no backups. Suddenly Shrapnel has to deal will all sorts of people that lost their CDKEYS and ask for new ones (expecting one since Shrapnel has to track their sales on their website) and potentially leading to all sorts of CDKEY scammers.
5) They will have to modify their entire CDKEY tracking model. They are no longer guaranteed that each copy of the manual corresponds to one CDKEY, that is printed on it.
They will have to either modify their production line to produce CDKEY free manual but store CDKEYS in some sort of other database or find some model where they print your manual with the code, and send the code to you before the manual is shipped (which creates problems for backorders.).
6) There are probably some costs involved in uploading the game to the digital distribution service, plus increased maintenance.

Some of these reasons are probably wrong.
Reason 5 is poorly explained.
There are probably more reasons that I can't think about.


Either way, if you really must play Dominions III now, just play the demo until the game arrives.

[S.R. Krol]

Many points to address...

@Cheezeninja: "...don't want to go to digital distribution because either they have a large stockpile of printed CD's/Manuals in backstock that are far less likely to get sold that way, or they have their own printing setup"

We've gone through many, many print runs of the game and never have it collecting dust, so that's not an issue. And no, we don't have our own print setup.

"...Dominions 3 costs a pretty penny for an indy game, and digital distribution is cheaper"

Digital distribution is cheaper? No, because it's entirely up to the seller. My favorite example is Distant Guns, which sells for $90 as a download. Or Steel Beasts Pro for $125.

"Especially if you could get some exposure on some gaming websites like Penny-Arcade or TheEscapist or something"

Go to the Dominions 3 product page and click on the "What They're Saying" link. That's just a small smattering of recognition. Not saying it doesn't hurt to get even more exposure, but just pointing out that it's not like the game has been underexposed.

***

@llamabeast "...but because we love this game, and want it to do better."

And what's to say it's not doing perfectly fine as it is? We don't give out sales figures, and you won't find it on the NPD, but how do you know it hasn't sold like fifteen million copies? Maybe half the population of India plays it. And sure, getting more people to buy it is always desirable, but sometimes I read these threads and get the sense that for whatever reason people think that only a 100 people on the planet are playing Dominions 3, which is far from the case.

***

@Jazzepi: "Especially in lieu of actually listening to your customers."

Come on, don't you mean because you don't get the answer you want?

Let's see, just in this thread Saulot said, " I know Dominions is great and all, but who can't wait a week or two, for what is, in the end, just a game?" So is his view any less valid than yours?

According to your way of thinking if some folks said that Illwinter should hand deliver the game with a basket of cheese and ale, then by God, that's what should happen because someone on a forum requested it. And if we the publisher aren't bending over backwards then we must not be listening to the customer, and we're a bad, bad company.

Why is it so hard to simply accept our answer? How about our customers actually listening to us?

As I've said multiple times, it doesn't mean that in the future it won't change. Heck, tomorrow we could go digital distribution. But today we're not.

[llamabeast]

@llamabeast "...but because we love this game, and want it to do better."

And what's to say it's not doing perfectly fine as it is?

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was "even better". I know this game has done very well, very deservedly. I just meant that if it were possible to extend the audience even further then it would be good to do that.

Let's see, just in this thread Saulot said, " I know Dominions is great and all, but who can't wait a week or two, for what is, in the end, just a game?" So is his view any less valid than yours?

Of course not. But let's assume 8 out of 10 people think like Saulot, and 2 in 10 like Jazzepi (I suspect it is a more even split than that). Well, even then you could gain a 25% sales increase by offering digital distribution! That's huge.

Personally I think a more extensive website with exciting descriptions of races and units, and links to AARs would also make a huge difference. Not many strategy fans could read a Dominions AAR and not want to buy it. Brad Wardell does AARs a lot for GalCivII, and they always go down very well. Here of course, the community can provide them.

[Jazzepi]

S.R. Krol said:
@Jazzepi: "Especially in lieu of actually listening to your customers."

Come on, don't you mean because you don't get the answer you want?

Let's see, just in this thread Saulot said, " I know Dominions is great and all, but who can't wait a week or two, for what is, in the end, just a game?" So is his view any less valid than yours?

According to your way of thinking if some folks said that Illwinter should hand deliver the game with a basket of cheese and ale, then by God, that's what should happen because someone on a forum requested it. And if we the publisher aren't bending over backwards then we must not be listening to the customer, and we're a bad, bad company.

Why is it so hard to simply accept our answer? How about our customers actually listening to us?

As I've said multiple times, it doesn't mean that in the future it won't change. Heck, tomorrow we could go digital distribution. But today we're not.

Please save the hyperbole for someone else. You yourself, in your first post said "Here this goes again with the digital distribution." If you can't tell that a feature, which is becoming a widely accepted aspect of new releases (read direct2drive.com, or Steam, or even your own digital download distro system), is wanted after, by your own admission, it's been requested multiple times, by multiple people, over a long period of time, then it's clear to me that the problem lies with your perception of how many people desire and could use the digital distro, not with the customers' demands for a "basket of cheese and ale" with dominions 3.

Lastly, "Why is it so hard to simply accept our answer? How about our customers actually listening to us?" because you're not paying the customer to come to your website. You work for me, however indirectly, because I, and everyone else who patronizes your distro center, pay your bills. You are in the very end beholden to the person that puts the food on your table. Just as the butcher is beholden to his customers. If they start asking for foie gras, and are willing to pay the price he charges for it, then he should start selling it. This isn't a complicated concept, it's simple economics. In the end, the customer really is, always right.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

llamabeast said:

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was "even better". I know this game has done very well, very deservedly. I just meant that if it were possible to extend the audience even further then it would be good to do that.

Of course not. But let's assume 8 out of 10 people think like Saulot, and 2 in 10 like Jazzepi (I suspect it is a more even split than that). Well, even then you could gain a 25% sales increase by offering digital distribution! That's huge.

Exactly. And it's not like offering digital distro damages the physical distro for those that want it. Basilisk games, another indy developer, actually it's just one guy, has the perfect setup. You can buy the physical copy, or you can buy the digital copy. In either case, you can download the game right away and start playing.

http://www.basiliskgames.com/order.htm

Jazzepi

[Kristoffer O]

> In the end, the customer really is, always right.

No way, you capitalist swine!!! I'm always right

Actually, there is no law that forces anyone to make money. I'm making enough being a teacher. Just because someone is willing to pay me for making computer games is no reason I should.

I don't have any problem with shrapnel not using downloads. I quite like it. Then there will be less morons playing my game. Since my game is a masterpiece only ace-players should play it. With downloads there is no way to ensure that the potential player is not afflicted by short attention span.

Hmm, I'm loosing focus.

[Ballbarian]

KO, I always love your posts.

[Caduceus]

Time to lock this one and move on folks while only feelings are hurt.

[Don_Seba]

Oh, Lord, PLEASE, save Ilwinter from "The Customer is always right!" mindset. As a selfish, elitist bastard, I certainly do not want the game "streamlined" to appeal to the masses. I'm happy with the way this series evolves, and if the developers are happy with the profits, why change it?

I have joined this forum only recently, but I have been collecting strategy tips for a while. Can we go back to "Nation X is under/overpowered", and "Strategy Y is abusive" threads? We have the game, and I, for one, have always been in more games than I should be playing. Digital distribution, price cuts... blah.