Mod: Warhammer MA: Empire

[Humakty]

GAAAAAHHHHH !!!!
Urm...euh...I mean yeah, it will be nice for sure...

[Morkilus]

so, wait... 2 different nations? Sweet.

[Sombre]

Yeah they'll be split into two nations, with two flags, in two different mod files as well probably. Only way to fit everything in.

[Noble713]

*bump*

This project isn't dead, is it?

[Wrana]

Thank you for the good work! Though I have to disagree on some issues, as usual.
(What I agree with is the 2 nations idea, though on different basis: I think that in gods-based games, such as Dominions is, it would be simply wrong to include followers of Sigmar and Ulric as one faction. I would prefer that it would be possible to make choice on the Pretender creation stage, but it's not so, alas. Kislevites I would (and shall) try to make an independent nation.)
0. I still think that Warhammer nations should be LA.
1. Why don't you include firearms as they are? They are surely part of WarHammer world, and balancing them shouldn't be too difficult...
2. I would (and shall, for my version) make a rapier as a new weapon - in any case, it needs to be done when Tilea will be under work... Otherwise, Imperial Swordsmen/Free Companies are often depicted using falchions...
3. I would include Empire standart bearer as additional unit
4. I would make at least Inner Circle Knight sacred (actually, in my version it's planned to make Free Lances, who is normal knights, and Knights of the Orders, who is sacred...)
5. I would include both mounted and foot versions of Sigmarite clergy... Plus Arch-Lectors. Grand Theogonist, I think, can only be included as unique (?) Hero.
6. Idea of Wizards/Lords as summons I think just isn't right, but it's possible that it grants better balance (though making them capital only and costly could be restriction enough?). Or do you make it so for some different reason? With Skaven some units made as summons for Warlock Engineers was thematic for sure, but for Empire?
7. North forces I generally agree about, but maybe they better have chain mail, not plate armor (I mean infantry, not Knights, of course!)?
8. Maybe too many Knight Orders, especially if we remember that they are dedicated to different gods...
That's it for now. In any case I plan to make at least some Warhammer-based nations coming autumn, but it would be fine to know reasons behind what you do..

[Sombre]

1. Dom3 isn't designed for guns and they don't work well within it, or make much sense in its context. I make the warhammer nations to be used along with the Dom3 set of nations, not as part of a total conversion.

2. I don't really see the point of adding a rapier as a new weapon. I'm not against the idea but it isn't a classic empire weapon or anything and it's basically just another sword, with slightly different stats to broad, short and falchion I guess.

3. I thought about having standard bearers and decided against it. Every nation in Warhammer has them in the tabletop game, but the dom3 AI doesn't handle them too well and I prefer standards on non magical commanders as incentive to build them.

4. Some of the orders will be sacred, probably. Several of the orders have no strong religious association, or are part of a cult that is often at odds with the primary religion (see blazing suns, a classic empire order). Inner circles are just the elite of the order, not any more sacred to ordinary people/the priesthood.

5. To keep the number of commanders on the build list down to a semi reasonable number, I'm just having H1+2+3 priests, probably all on foot.

6. I want to include all of the magical orders. This simply doesn't work if they're recruitable from the recruit screen. That's the only reason for this decision, really. It does give the Empire an interesting mechanic too.

7. The plate armour is actually a bit of an issue. Plate cuirass is pretty damn heavy armour in dom3, yet in warhammer the empire troops have light armour. I might give them a special 'empire plate cuirass' or something with slightly less prot and enc. Some of the lighter units have ringmail etc also - notably the spearmen.

8. Yeah there are probably too many. There are probably too many nations, spells, items and units in dom3 also. I'll just add one or two in each version I release. They all have cool graphics and backstories and I will give them all slightly different mechanics. I expect them to be more of a theme/RP thing though, unlike the magic colleges which will have a big impact on gameplay.

[Sombre]

Oh and no this isn't abandoned. I'll finish it eventually. I might even upload a bunch of graphics this weekend to tide people over. I admit I haven't worked on it forever though - all the stuff I could show you is old.

[HoneyBadger]

Sombre-as concerns plate armour: There are quite a few different varieties and methods of producing plate. Some are going to be quite heavy, particularly those mass produced, or cheaply produced-such as the average recruitable Dom3 unit. Very high quality plate, however, would have to either be made on a very limited basis because of the expense and level of skill to produce it, or be produced by a nation with an advanced infrastructure, like the Empire. The very best plate armour ever produced (from Kasten-Brust to Maximilian) covered you from head to toe, allowed completely free movement, and weighed no more than 50lbs.

[Wrana]

Thank you for your answers.
1. I, for my part, am going to try to make WarHammer series mostly separate - about as BlackMoon project was, which added 4 different nations from different setting with intention that they were mostly to be played against one another, not alongside Dominions staple nations. I consider this more logical - without thinking where they appeared from and why. As for how they work - I didn't play much with Tarent mod, but had an impression that firearms worked relatively well in its context.. Have you any information on this? And in WarHammer there are quite many firearms so I'm not sure that their abscence would make style the same. Mechanically, of course, difference isn't much.
2. Well, slightly different stats, of course. Just that when I thought about this, I realised that a) historical counterparts to Empire Swordsmen, i.e., Spanish rondashiers (sp?) used just them and b) I would need them anyway when working on Tilea...
3. Agree that in WarHammer most armies have them. But it could be a good way to represent higher discipline and organisation of Empire armies (I don't plan to include banners for Bretonnia foot, for example). Another possibility I thought of is to make Empire infantry more mobile both on battlefield and on a strategy map than their armor would indicate ("marching"; this wouldn't be the case for cavalry).
4. Generally yes. Which is why other possibility and 8. I just don't see Empire cavalry consisting entirely of Templars and light cavalry - there should be secular knights as well as sacred ones, and the latter, while fine in RPG context, shouldn't probably be in the game which centers around gods struggling for domination...
5. Have to agree with this - there are many commanders already... And you didn't include Engineer, I fear! By the way, I agree that Witch Hunter should have patrolling, not spying ability. If any, he is more like assassin, not spy...
6. Understand now... Not sure if it would be manageable other way, too.
7. Yes, it's somewhat of a translation problem. But in this case (and some others) I am more inclined to go by art and descriptions rather than strict WarHammer mechanic (which, after all, includes just 2 general armor types)... And the question was due to the fact that north-provinces troops I've seen depicted with different armor.
8. Well, we surely can't reduce the number of things developers throw at us! While in the mods we produce we have more freedom in regards what to not include.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Sombre-as concerns plate armour: There are quite a few different varieties and methods of producing plate. Some are going to be quite heavy, particularly those mass produced, or cheaply produced-such as the average recruitable Dom3 unit. Very high quality plate, however, would have to either be made on a very limited basis because of the expense and level of skill to produce it, or be produced by a nation with an advanced infrastructure, like the Empire. The very best plate armour ever produced (from Kasten-Brust to Maximilian) covered you from head to toe, allowed completely free movement, and weighed no more than 50lbs.

Well I'm not that fussed about history. Empire State Troops are generally depicted with plate cuirasses and so they're going to have some sort of chestplate armour. However in Warhammer they are not heavy infantry - they are medium at best. The Greatswords do have full plate and I'm ok with them being tough to kill (though without helmets, poor fellas), but the plate cuirass in dom3 is a bit much for the state troops.