Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod (and summary file) 1.1

[Kristoffer O]

[Edi]

Those two are the only changes that break things between 3.08 and 3.10 in mods (unless someone has made the mistake of editing certain void monsters and the retiarius by their monster names instead of number). The biggest problem with the whole armor and spell issues is that they are not selectable by ID number as they properly should be. Well, spells are, afaik, but there is no spell DB yet. If you could select and assign armor by ID number (like you can do with weapons) instead of having to use the names, there would be no problems at all with those.

People have at various points *****ed about various typos, spelling errors and other such things in the game (I'm not the only one who has noticed such things), so once they were being looked at in a coherent fashion, it made no sense at all not to harmonize all spellings across the board. I have to shoulder a fair portion of the blame and I apologize for the inconvenience, but I do not regret those changes coming about.

[Sombre]

This isn't really about CBM, but it would be nice if when the patch was released the modders here could be informed which nametypes, nation numbers etc are being used by the new material. It would help us out and presumably not take long for KO or whoever to look up.

[Edi]

Point. I don't actually know the nametypes or nation numbers for the new ones, but Fomoria is supposedly 15 and Pythium SC is probably 70 (Lanka 68, Eriu 69 and SC is at the end of the LA list in games). Pythium SC probably uses the EA/MA Ermor & MA Pythium nametype, no idea about the Fomorians.

I'm going to compile a lot of the mod stuff that I talked about earlier and present it to IW for review for the next patch, now that a lot of the other stuff that was with 3.08 is out of the way. The next edition of the Dom3DB is also going to be more useful to nation modders (lists nation numbers, start forts and sites and will eventually have more stuff).

[lch]

Edi said:
Point. I don't actually know the nametypes or nation numbers for the new ones, but Fomoria is supposedly 15 and Pythium SC is probably 70 (Lanka 68, Eriu 69 and SC is at the end of the LA list in games). Pythium SC probably uses the EA/MA Ermor & MA Pythium nametype, no idea about the Fomorians.

The IDs are correct. Nation number 70 changed its file names from nation_70.* to pythium.* which is, uh, funny in ongoing games, but amazingly does not break anything cross versions.

[Sombre]

I just fixed a couple of typos in this description - below is the fixed version ready to include in the next version.

--Jotunhiem ME

#newmonster 2888
#copyspr 283
#copystats 283
#gcost 40
#name "Chief"
#descr "The Wolf Kin of Jotun, or Vaettir, as they call themselves, are a tribal people of goblins living in the deep forests of Jotunhiem. They try to avoid contact with the giants, but serve the Gygjas without question. The Hags are sacred to the Wolf Kin, and a Vaetti would gladly die to protect a Gygja in danger. The Wolf Kin wear heavy furs, and some ride into battle on their wolven friends. Vaettir are small and stealthy and can hide in enemy territories."
#end


I am going to post other random bits for the update in this thread over the next couple of days.

I might as well say these random bits now -

Little Bakemono should be size 1, not 2. Not major, but they are clearly size 1 units in terms of graphics and stats.

Pikes need something extra to make people consider building them. Since the main advantage of being mounted is having +def, I suggest giving pikes +2 to att rather than the +1 they have now. Simple, easy change and gives pikemen a niche.

[CUnknown]

Thanks for working to update this mod for the new patch, I eagerly await its completion!

But, you asked for the reasons why I dislike the item and nation mods, so I will comment on them. I really do like most of what you've done, so don't get the wrong idea.

Nation Mod:

My major beef with this one is the increased cost for indy commanders and scouts. It may be that they are actually worth that much (?) or you did it because things just work out better that way, I'm not sure, but I just don't care for it, and that's enough to prevent me from using this one. I do like just about everything else in it.

Perhaps, lower the indy commanders from 65 to maybe 40 or 45?

Item mod:

First thing off hand that I remember was the increased cost of the dwarven hammers. I pretty much hate that, lol. As far as other complaints, nothing really stands out except many of the things you've changed just don't seem to be necessary. Maybe for half the changes, I'm just not sure why they were made. Some of them seem good, but mostly I just don't get it.

Take for example the changes to research items. I mean.. weren't they perfectly fine before?

[quantum_mechani]

Ah, well, you've picked probably the two most popular major complaint's, I have to admit I was hoping for something more exotic.

With those (as with most anything in the mod), I'm willing to be convinced on them. The reasoning behind the indy change is very simple: everyone uses the indy scouts/troops leaders to the exclusion of national ones. The national ones could be made 0 gold and they would still not be chosen vs default priced indies, due to fort slots. That said, I have been playing with the idea of instead differentiating national commanders by giving them extra weapons, abilities and stats. This seems a fun idea, but it has a lot hurtles, among which is coming up with enough different boosts, making them all thematic (having magical weapons and HP is particularly tricky), and not undercutting heroes.

The reasoning for the hammer getting harder to get is simply that it's incredibly under priced. People complain about clams... it's not unusual for a hammer to pay off in one turn. The hammer was already an amazing deal in dom2, now it just so happens to be 25% off in base game. I can understand people being annoyed by the change when they first come across it, but I would argue it actually cuts down mm in addition to improving balance. As far as I can tell, no one really seems to think the base game price is particularly balanced, merely convenient since hammer abuse is so deeply ingrained in dominions players.

In the case of research items, I must admit I am quite astonished at the number of people who use them base game. I don't think I would ever use them other than perhaps the occasional lightless lantern binge. However, it seems lots of people swear by skull mentors and owl quills, so since the change seems to confuse some people I will likely reset it next version. Aside from that, I'm not sure what would be considered extraneous tweaks, apart from simply insufficient ones. There are a lot of items that are rather useless even at the very minimum cost and level, nonetheless I gave them what boosts I could on the slim chance someone might be able to come up with an off-the-wall tactic for them.

Again, I very much appreciate the feedback, if there is one lesson I have learned making CB it's that people are happy with almost any balance or imbalance, but make a change that inconveniences people and all hell breaks loose.

[Burnsaber]

AoE on weapons is moddable currently. Will you be changing the Star of Heroes like you said on IrC some time ago?

[quantum_mechani]

I strongly suspect even with the improved AoE modding it will still lose it's armor breaking power by making it AoE, but I suppose it might be worth testing.