Has anything really changed?

[Onomatopoeia]

This is a long post and deals with many topics, and I apologise in advance, the real question is right at the end, so feel free to skip there if you wish.

I'd just like to start by saying that the main reason why I play Space Empires as opposed to all the flashier 4X games out there is the sheer modability of the game, but also because it is so simple to mod, you don't need a degree in programming to mod SE, unlike most other 'moddable' games.
Despite being far more moddable than most games, there were times in Space Empires IV when I found something I wanted to add was impossible within the coding of the game, so when Space Empires V was announced I was very excited by the possibilities of new modding possibilities.
When Starfury came out it looked like there was the possibility of weapon facing for SE5, unfortunately, there isn�t, only damage facing, which seems rather pointless to me without weapon facing and thus very disappointing. Furthermore, I was hoping for some sort of area-of-effect weapons or even arcing weapons that go from ship to ship etc.
From what I've seen of the demo and the forums, none of these things are possible, in fact, I wonder if anything is possible at in SE5 that isn't in SE4.
Indeed, the new features of SE5 have actually made it more difficult for someone like me to mod the game. For example, while moving from 2D to 3D was a necessary step forward and real-time tactical combat presents many new opportunities, it has reduced the scope for customisation. Shipsets are much harder and more complex to make in 3D, so I wonder if we will have the same large resource of high-quality shipsets available for SE5 as we did for SE4.
Further, and more worryingly, the new formula system seems to add an unnecessary level of difficulty to modding, personally I don�t see what was wrong with the old find and replace method of multiple components. Further, I prefer the old, more flexible, method of choosing weapon damage (i.e. 15 15 20 20 10 10 etc.) and am very disappointed to see it go (unless one can still use the old method to determine weapon damage, in which case I would be obliged if someone could tell me how).

The real question is: What options are available for modders in SE5 that weren't in SE4?

[Fyron]

Most shipset authors for SE4 used normal 3d modeling apps to make their sets, so they will be fine with SE5. It's just the few that used Doga that will have troubles.

If you really want to, you can recreate a damage model like SE4 with iff() structures... I don't see why you would want to though, since most anything reasonable can be modeled as a function.

The SE4 method for components/facilities/etc. was needlessly tedious, prone to random, hard to detect typographical errors in the middle of families. It is a lot easier to manage the components/etc. as families than as individual items, especially for larger families.

[pujal]

I would never have even bought se5 if it weren't for the real-time combat.

As for moddability, It may seem lean now but no doubt down the road you will find yourself swamped with choices for mods/shipsets etc as people who shrugged off the earlier games as primitive take a second look because of the 3d engine.

I know several of my friends have.

[aegisx]

Alot of the AI is exposed to scripts now too.

[Suicide Junkie]

Just FYI:

There is an explicit SE4-style damage at range field in components.txt, so you don't have to use the formulae.

Code:

---

Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment        := 5.0

Weapon Space Min Damage At Range                :=    50 50 50 50 50 50 50 0

Weapon Space Max Damage At Range                :=    100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range           :=    50 45  40  35  30  25  10 0

---

[Phoenix-D]

I was wondering what those fields were for.

[Combat Wombat]

Suicide Junkie said:
Just FYI:

There is an explicit SE4-style damage at range field in components.txt, so you don't have to use the formulae.

Code:

---

Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment        := 5.0

Weapon Space Min Damage At Range                :=    50 50 50 50 50 50 50 0

Weapon Space Max Damage At Range                :=    100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Weapon Space To Hit Modifier At Range           :=    50 45  40  35  30  25  10 0

---

Oh sweet

[Fyron]

How do you specify which set of values to use? Or does it just add the "modifier" formula to the base value from "damage at range?"

[Phoenix-D]

More flexible? SE4 had 20 damage ranges. SE5 has five HUNDRED.

You can do the SE4 system in SE5. It's just a bit more fiddly to create. And if you don't want a perfect match, its easier.

anti-proton beam XII, SE4:
Weapon Damage At Rng := 65 60 60 55 55 50 50 45 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Same thing, SE5: 65 - ([%Range%] / 2) - iif([%Range%] > 80, 10000, 0).

The difference is you have to do it ONCE in SE5, if you do the forumla properly, and in SE4 you'd have to input it 12 times.

SE5 has a built-in mod loader. SE4 does not.

SE5 has modable damage types, planet types, and unit types. SE4 does not.

SE5 has a much more flexible way of making components available. Want to make it so you can research Physics OR Chemistry to get a certain component? You can do that.

SE5 makes the "Tech grid" approach of SE4 look clunky. If you want to, say make missile damage dependant on one tech, missile speed on another, and missile range on a third, you can easily do that. In SE4 it was a tedious process involving HUNDREDS of components, which meant you could only do it for a few items before the file got too large to load.

SE4's combat speed for ships with Strategic Speed /2. In SE5 you can define combat speed seperately, along with acceleration, turning, etc.

Do I need to go on?

[Shadowstar]

Indeed, as a modder I look at SE5 like a kid in a candy store. There's so many things we can play with, I don't know where to begin!