OT: Stop IE

Fyron · #1 October 16th, 2005, 04:48 PM

For all those still stuck on IE...

http://www.stopie.com/

Combat Wombat · #2 October 16th, 2005, 05:02 PM

Man people have a insane hatred for microsoft, and don't tell me thats not it because it is.

Fyron · #3 October 16th, 2005, 05:07 PM

So disliking the worst browser on the market means I have an insane hatred for MS? That's some interesting logic.

Did you visit the site?

wilhil · #4 October 16th, 2005, 06:09 PM

Sorry, but I have to say this....

copy from the site, and my comments begin with //

There are countless bugs in Internet Explorer, but here are the main reasons to choose a free alternative.
//most of the bugs refeared to are features, read what I write below, and IE is free, I have no use for a alternative

Prone to viruses and worms
//Well you would be if you had over 80% share of the market?

Renders pages incorrectly. Web designers then need to spend extra time working so that pages work in Internet Explorer. This puts costs up, and slows the web down.
// I am a web programmer, I design for IE from the start, I have NEVER had a problem with rendering

Doesn't let people resize certain text sizes. This means those with poor sight cannot read small text on many sites.
// This occurs when web developers use certain font commands instead of default, the text font commands only resize the default sizes.

Far slower program than other web browsers
// NEVER had a problem with speed

Far larger program than other web browsers
// I have a load of computers and servers here, my largest server being 750GB, and the smallest desktop being 80GB, 10MB extra is so large and a good reason for changing isnt it?

Isn't as user-centric as other web browsers. It lacks many handy features such as tabbed browsing and integrated search
// I agree about tabbed browsing, I enjoy that for reading up many forum posts at once, but you can do that, although limited with the msn addon, and it will be included in the new IE

Doesn't support PNG images properly
//because every website uses png? if it was that good, and everyone wanted it, it would support it, frankly there has not been a website I have visited that didnt work. I AM HAPPY!

now for extra bits, this is a horrible thing to say but, why do you think terroists attacked the twin towers instead of some house in a isolated village?

people will always try and target the largest ammount of people with as small effort, why on earth if I am a virus writer, would I write something to attack a 10% share, when I can take out a 80% share...

mozilla recently has had a load of bugs, I do not just say my opinions, I try the competition, I am always getting the flash thing at the bottom saying update available, why on earth do you think that is? they are adding a quick feature that everyone will enjoy? no, its a quiet, quick bugfix.

anything with a big userbase will always be a target, and if people use others, I can bet my life on tons of bugs being there.

now as for IE worms and stuff, it is shipped in a unsecure mode so people can go to any site they want, a load of people visit hack sites, crack sites, porn sites, bad sites in general, where viruses and trojans hang.

I can say to you again, I have got my security settings to high, it only allows me to go to sites I want, and basically it is much more secure, I have never been to porn sites or crack sites, and I can tell you I have not had ONE SINGLE error with IE.

Yes, there are other options out, but it does not mean that they are any better.

I could say so so much more on this topic, but I will let it lie, but I will write more if I have to!

back to friendly talk about when SEV will come out?

Fyron · #5 October 16th, 2005, 06:59 PM

// I am a web programmer, I design for IE from the start, I have NEVER had a problem with rendering

You should not "design for IE," you should design for w3c standards and avoid all IE rendering bugs whenever possible. Standards exist for a reason. Unfortunately this means that the entire standard can't be used, but it should still be used, not the IE bug set.

// This occurs when web developers use certain font commands instead of default, the text font commands only resize the default sizes.

Which is a good ekample of a problem with IE: inconsistent behavior.

// NEVER had a problem with speed

If you read the rest of the site, the summary becomes more clear. See: http://www.stopie.com/speed/

//because every website uses png? if it was that good, and everyone wanted it, it would support it, frankly there has not been a website I have visited that didnt work. I AM HAPPY!

There is absolutely no excuse for IE to still not render PNG format properly after half a decade. It is an extremely popular format.

people will always try and target the largest ammount of people with as small effort, why on earth if I am a virus writer, would I write something to attack a 10% share, when I can take out a 80% share...

mozilla recently has had a load of bugs...

Mozilla fixes their bugs. MS lets 90% of the bugs and holes go unchecked. This is the difference.

now as for IE worms and stuff, it is shipped in a unsecure mode so people can go to any site they want, a load of people visit hack sites, crack sites, porn sites, bad sites in general, where viruses and trojans hang.

This is a poor hack. The well-documented holes in the browser that are exploited every ms of every day should have been fixed 4 years ago. I should not have to use "deny everything" settings to be free from dozens of critical, unfixed security holes. Further, I should not have to dowgrade my OS to emoticon to get future security fixes. The browser being integrated into the OS (since the days of 98) is one of the most atrocious blunders ever made by MS. Running user level programs (such as rendering web pages) in kernel mode is just absurd. It is one of the most basic security blunders I can think of. Most of the exploits in IE would never have been so bad if MS had not done this to get a few percent improved performance.

Yes, there are other options out, but it does not mean that they are any better.

The fact that IE is so utterly terrible is what makes the alternatives better.

El_Phil · #6 October 16th, 2005, 07:00 PM

Ohh that's the kind of talk that attracts Thermodyne. Probably with some comment about how we all must change now, and you're a fool if you don't. Just a prediction

As for me, I've found an IE addon that does tabbed browsing and better searching. Never had a problem with IE, not speed nor security so why change? If I went to dodgy sites then maybe I'd be slightly safer, but probably not. Frankly if the site doesn't support IE it's the sites problem, not the browser. If you don't support the 85%+ market leader your stuborn or stupid.

I don't like Bill or MS, but you must deal with life as it is, and at the moment IE is king regardless of its faults.

NullAshton · #7 October 16th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Sites for IE works for all the other browsers, so why not design it for IE first? Works in all the other browsers, looks the same, more convient for those people who still use IE.

Thermodyne · #8 October 16th, 2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

El_Phil said:
Ohh that's the kind of talk that attracts Thermodyne. Probably with some comment about how we all must change now, and you're a fool if you don't. Just a prediction

El_Phil, why don�t you just make your posts under my name? You seem to continuously try to put words into my mouth! Even though you don�t have a clue about me, as usual. You�re worse than an old mother-in-law.

Fact is that I recommend Firefox for personal use, although its popularity has caused it to become a target for exploits too. I was one of the early converts to Firefox. And I really don�t care what browser people use. IE holds the majority of the personal market and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. IE rules the business world, and will remained unchallenged as long as developers rely on activeX controls to make things work. IE 6.0.2900.2180 can be made quite secure on an XPsp2 system, but it is a constant chore to keep it locked down on a system used for random web browsing. Personally, I�m beginning to look for another obscure browser, one that will not have the install base to attract exploits.

Just to set the record straight, the core IE code that keeps being hacked is not even MS�s work. They licensed/bought the majority of it from outside sources.

Strategia_In_Ultima · #9 November 14th, 2005, 05:21 AM

It is only because I had no internet over the weekend that I didn't post this sooner, but.....

Fyron, you keep (kept) going on about w3c "standards". To my knowledge, a "standard" is something that works with the majority of some thing or other. Right now, IE has an 85%+ market share, as I inferred from other posts here, so therefore IE IS the standard. Make a website compatible with IE and you make sure over 80% of the web-browsing community can view it without problems. Sure, there are more web browsers out there - but together they can't hold a candle to IE's user base.

I'm not a fan of Microsoft myself, and I much prefer Firefox, but Fyron, you're just spewing out your blind hatred for Microsoft here. And like CW said in the first reply, don't say it's not just spewing your hatred because this entire thread has everything to do with blind hatred of the big M.

Fyron · #10 November 14th, 2005, 01:43 PM

The w3c standards are implemented fully by all browsers except IE, and partially by Opera last I checked, but that may have been fixed by now. Therefore, they work with an overwhelming majority of browsers. Just because Microsoft now gives a big f* you to the rest of the web development world does not make the w3c standards any less than the standards they are, and neither does IE's large but decreasing market share... Technical standards are defined as what a recognized industry group declares them to be, nothing else. Microsoft even recognizes the w3c standards as the web technology standards and was on its way to making IE compliant with them. They stopped development of IE 4 years ago when their market share reached insane levels, primarily due to strong arm tactics over any particular technical competence. IE may currently be the de facto Windows standard browser, but it does not define the standards for web technologies.

This has absolutely nothing to do with blind hatred. It has to do with well-founded, insightful, knowledgable hatred. I have absolutely no blind hatred for Microsoft. Please do not be so prejudiced to believe that anyone that dislikes a product of Microsoft is blind. Thank you.