Shrapnel to Take on Wargamer.com?

[War_Oberst]

Annette said:
Welcome to our forums War_Oberst and thank you for posting. I appreciate your thoughtful input and have taken it under advisement. Perhaps I should have held my tongue as my odd sense of humor often leads me to trouble

(Forgive my English, I go to school in Texas at Rice University and am from Indonesia. I speak well enough but never coud type it well. Papers give me a headache to write them. I glad I'm not English major heh heh.)

I appreciate your reply Annette. I understand your point of view and can see how it makes some sense to a extent, but a sense of humor like that may just make you seem less objectiv. I know Matrix is heard of having spent money on the Wargamer site but I think thier writers are doing a decent job...sure matrix make the gold award (whatever it was) for publisher of the year, but Matrix publish lots of wargames, perhaps with appeael to more peopel in a wargame crowd. Their audience = wargame peopel who eat and live it.

No offence to shrapnel at all because you make good stuff to, just not in same area (make sense??). WWII, it seem, is matrix Specalty and lots of game made in that area. You game like Dragoon and BCT/Tiger are very specific and not broad in general covering a timeperiod of war. 82nd I have highe hope for and look forward to it. Just need $ to get it.

Anyways my point is tat wargamer seems to do more mainstrem stuff that appael to broader audihence where as yours are good yet appael to those with narrow taste. I hope this is clear.

I was hoping to make the point that TheGamingNews will be very straightforward about it's relationship with Shrapnel Games and avoid practices which may be misconstrued as self-promotion. I was quite baffled by the title of this thread and "Beverly's" perception that TGN was somehow similar to The Wargamer. TGN is intended as a vehicle for Indie Developers and Indie Gamers to come together. It will not focus on any particular genre and will include coverage of games which are self-published. Sometimes these games don't get a fair shake in mainstream press and are often reviewed by writers who are familiar only with AAA titles and may overlook the value of niche games.

I am relative new to these Games like this, have played not long of late but schoolwork and programming take up more time than I care to give. I read a lot of books but I go a little slow to make it sink. But maybe I am not knowing what games You mean. What small companes do 'niche' games??? I have not heard of any except in game mags.

I will be honest again, I see HORSE and think it looks cool, but a freind say it is just MULE all over again. What is MuLE, I asked, but he said it was done in almost twenty years ago. Why remake this??? I hope not many are like this because origenality is more important than rehashing old Ideas.

Again tanks for your reply and I look forward to more.

War_Oberst

[War_Oberst]

mac5732 said:
Personally, I like the idea. There are many games out there and most of the reviews are in game magazines which I tend to be skeptical of in a number of occasssions, (example, I've seen raving reviews on some games that I've played, and which IMHO were lousy and yet the reviews praised how great they were. Yes I would like to see a review site that is objective and gives fair reviews. As far as starting a war with wargamer, I don't think thats what Shrapnel has in mind. There is always room for another review site, the problem is, getting people, lst to read it, 2nd to believe the reviews are fair and honest and not tied to special interests. You might want to add a write i section where fans can also comment on the games. That way you show your review and also comments from those who've played the game.

My 2 cents

I think this hard because there are many peopel who write reviews out there. Is it not their opinion that is posting? It is fair to assume that if a game come out and five hundred buy it. Then say fifty hate it awful and four hundred fifty love it. One of fifty that hate it is the reviewer and writes as such.

Balance of being a good objective writer is knowing you are not the only one who play it and if you hate it there may be peopel that love it. Or other way round. Say you hate the game but ask why can be done to make it better and good. Not telling peopel who make it why they are stupid.

When you read opinion of gamer reviewer it is a measure of thier publisher who post reviews as to if they let such garbage out there or not or if they make writer temper it.

As for special interest it would be high prase for gamesite to be owned by publisher and make it have fair review ESPECALLY Of games that compettitors make.

[Tim Brooks]

As for special interest it would be high prase for gamesite to be owned by publisher and make it have fair review ESPECALLY Of games that compettitors make.

What is a competitor? As a niche game publisher, we compete with other niche games publishers for developers products. And that is all. Once a competitor has a game it is in the best interest of all publishers to have that game be a success. The more successes the greater the market.

This isn't automobiles we are selling here, where there will only be two or three to a household. Most gamers, those that account for almost 80% of games sold, buy many games. It is not a matter of I can buy x publisher's game or I can buy y publisher's game. If they like both games, they will buy both games.

So, being a publisher and being fair in reviews is not a problem that I really see. Our policy to reviewers is very simple:

1. Write the review to the products audience. (Don't reveiw a hardcore wargame as it applies to a casual gamer, because that is not the market the publisher is going after).

2. Give the pluses and minuses fairly. (Tell the audience what you like and don't like about the game).

3. Don't score it as this is subjective. (Reveiwer A may not have the same interpretation of scoring as reviewer B).

4. Treat every game equally, regardless of publisher.

[Gandalf Parker]

By description its supposed to be just about the indies. And I do tend to believe that is what is planned.

Of course a couple of things have to be fought to pull that off. One is that they need to get writers on board who can work on that goal. Another is that they need to find the indies (hence the pre-announcement and a call for contact by any indie developer/publishers). And finally, anyone involved in the project might have to consciously make an effort not to give hints about their own personal preferences.

"Shrapnel" is a great name for a publisher who has their eye on the marketing niche of indie developers doing strategy wargames. And they have done a great job of it. Im not sure if widening their publisher coverage would be good or not. I certainly wouldnt feel pressed to recommend it. So there is a slight dilemma in that we have Shrapnel who obviously loves and actively develops strategy wargames, backing the new magazine for covering all indie products.

They will have a rough go in the early days gathering material. And they will obviously have a wealth of information on their own games, their own developers, and some side surfing on the interest of their own genre. Yet they cant rely on that wealth of material without seeming to have created a biased magazine.

Anyone who believes in their sincerity and wants this project to succeed, feel free to pitch in. Even if its dropping little tidbits of names for your favorite indie developers. Better yet, pitch the mag to indie developers and have them contact the mag for inclusion.

[JDC]

Which indies have you contacted so far?

[Annette]

War_Oberst said:
What small companes do 'niche' games??? I have not heard of any except in game mags.

I will be honest again, I see HORSE and think it looks cool, but a freind say it is just MULE all over again. What is MuLE, I asked, but he said it was done in almost twenty years ago. Why remake this??? I hope not many are like this because origenality is more important than rehashing old Ideas.

War_Oberst

There are many, many companies out there developing and publishing niche games. And you've found the mission behind TheGamingNews: to bring attention to those games not usually covered in the major magazines. In the meantime, you may wish to visit the Independent Games Festival website for more informatation about indie games.

No, not all indie games are remakes of older games. You may find it interesting to read A Note from the Designer in which Todd Gillessie specifically explains why he was inspired by M.U.L.E. to make Space HoRSE. And there's always our free downloadable demo so you may see if the game is right for you prior to making a purchase.

JDC said:
Which indies have you contacted so far?

I'm not the person heading up the process but my understanding is we're still collecting contact information from those who have responded to our press release. We have been very pleased with what we've heard so far. If you know of a developer or publisher who is interested but not yet been in touch with us, please ask them to send us their contact information using this form.

[JDC]

Will do. Jeff Lapkoff and Naval Warfare Simulations come to mind.

[Annette]

Thanks, Jim. I've talked to Chris at NWS. I'm not sure about Jeff.

[Annette]

War_Oberst said:
I think this hard because there are many peopel who write reviews out there. Is it not their opinion that is posting? It is fair to assume that if a game come out and five hundred buy it. Then say fifty hate it awful and four hundred fifty love it. One of fifty that hate it is the reviewer and writes as such.

Balance of being a good objective writer is knowing you are not the only one who play it and if you hate it there may be peopel that love it. Or other way round. Say you hate the game but ask why can be done to make it better and good. Not telling peopel who make it why they are stupid.

When you read opinion of gamer reviewer it is a measure of thier publisher who post reviews as to if they let such garbage out there or not or if they make writer temper it.

As for special interest it would be high prase for gamesite to be owned by publisher and make it have fair review ESPECALLY Of games that compettitors make.

I�m sure I�ll take some heat for this, but I�m going to play devil�s advocate. The quotes below are the documentation portion of two pc game reviews published on the same review website within a two week period. Both games would be considered wargames from independent publishers. Although written by different authors, one would assume the reviews were held to one editorial policy by one editorial staff. I�ve noted the reviews� publication dates in relation to the games� release dates but obviously cannot say when the review copies were made available. I feel safe assuming Game A was not sent seven months prior to release and that Game B was not sent seven months past release. I have removed the games� titles and replaced them with Game A and Game B respectively.

Game A, reviewed same day as game�s release:

Installation, Documentation, and Tutorials[/i]

The game installed without fault and consumed approximately 520 MB of hard disk space.
The manual is large � approximately 120 pages - and comprehensive. It�s logically laid out and makes ample use of screenshots to help explain the game�s features. It covers initial set up; game controls; tutorials; and provides thorough explanations of the units � how they move, attack, are researched and produced � as well as how supply works and offers some sound strategic advice for each of the playable powers. Having a detailed manual helps enormously. Although Game A may look like an easy game to play, it actually requires more cerebral input than expected to play the game to its full potential.

The game ships with two tutorials, covering the principal components of a game turn: movement/attack and production/research.

Game B, reviewed 7 months after game�s release :

Nothing like a Wargame with a Big Manual to put the Fear of God into You

Game B is a mere 80MB install, and the game runs smooth as a polished wood panel; the area of difficulty for many may come in that the game operates its briefings through an internet browser, which can cause problems for those running tight firewalls not overly fond of OOB�s.

The manual is necessarily 130 pages and is crammed full of essential detail. Game B is a game which requires a very thorough read through unless one wishes to become completely and utterly lost from the first moment.

Now, if I told you that one of these games was published by the company which owned the review site, would you believe both reviews were written objectively and without bias?

[Dave Erickson]

Brilliantly stated!