Ulm beefed up ...

[tinkthank]

Sounds like some good ideas, all very nice.
If I may....

- Faster-loading Arbs sound too powerful to me.
- I wouldnt want too many strat-2 Ulm units, I think that detracts from the Ulmish flavor.
- The higher MR sounds like a very good solution.
- Elemental smiths are really very strong now -- had anyone considered a unit with 1 full random, sort of like a sage with higher MR and without research bonuses?

[deccan]

Tuidjy said:

We shall see about that, won't we? Of course, if you lose even under these
very favorable conditions, I expect your vocal support every time someone
tries to talk the developers into beefing up Ulm.

Wow, first MP game this year! I bet 10 astrals on Tuidjy winning.

[Yvelina]

20 astrals Petar will win the games with C'tis and Abysia.

The only chance CUnknown has will be in the first game where he should go straight for Pythium's capital and hope that Petar cannot stop him on turn eight/nine. On that one, I will make no bet, but I would certainly love to see the turn files after the game is over.

[Huzurdaddi]

The only chance CUnknown has will be in the first game where he should go straight for Pythium's capital and hope that Petar cannot stop him on turn eight/nine.

Well if it is going to be a quick game then perhaps Serpent Cult with a strong bless would be the way to go ( eg: E9N9 ). While such a nation runs out of gas pretty quickly the troops are nigh impossible to stop ( except for the vulnerable preist who is there simply to cast bless ).

Also very short/small games can come down to whom has the best combat pretender. In which case Ulm is not disadvantaged at all.

[PrinzMegaherz]

Imho drain should increase the magic resistance of your troops and have an disease-like effect on magical beings. In a land without magic, there is nothing to keep them going. Maybe one could make this an Ulm special dominion, much like the killer dominions of Ermor and CW

I know I've said that before, but this seems like a good place to repeat this ;-)

[CUnknown]

Hey Huzurdaddi! We're not making special pretenders to win on a small map. We're playing standard mid-size map pretenders.

And I have a chance to win every game, and not just on turn 8-9.

[Huzurdaddi]

Hey Huzurdaddi! We're not making special pretenders to win on a small map. We're playing standard mid-size map pretenders.

And I have a chance to win every game, and not just on turn 8-9.

Doh my bad then. If you are going for mid game power then I expect to see Ghost Kings. Let he who can construct the best ghost king win!

You could have human pretenders on each side. This would make the national troops more of a factor. Or you could specify immobile pretender ( and when I say immobile I mean the sphinx -- this would almost totally eliminate the pretender from the game ).

Oh and while you were specifying which nations were allowed and not allowed I see that you did not mention Jotunheim. Those giants like to crush humans in cans.

[CUnknown]

I'm not that scared of Jotunheim, but they would be a little tough maybe, yeah.

We're not playing with any special pretender rules.

[PvK]

My thoughts:

* I don't think Ulm needs even better armor
* I don't think standard Ulm needs a random pick. It changes Ulm's flavor and removes the strongest advantage of IF Ulm over standard Ulm.
* I don't think strat-move-2 heavy infantry for Ulm makes sense, unless maybe you add a lighter infantry type, or give it only to the chainmail/shieldless types.
* I don't think arbalests should be changed to firing every 2 turns. They are good enough as is, and I don't agree a stronger person can reload an arbalest faster - generally the heaviest crossbows required a device which removed the role of strength.

* I would like to know what regular heavy infantry someone considers superior to Ulm's, taking into account gold cost.
* What gets developed in "5 to 10 turns" that supposedly removes Ulm's early-game advantage in troops?

* +1 strength seems thematic with Ulmites' large size and use of heavy equipment.

* I do like the idea of adding MR to Ulm.
* I would like to see Drain scale add +1 MR per level, and maybe +1 morale/level to Ulm. Can't mod those, though.

I would like to see Ghoul Guardians improved by, adding Full Plate of Ulm (and resource cost to match), and perhaps increasing MR and dropping gold cost and/or making the sacred.

Iron Faith I would like to have a Black Templar Commander unit.

PvK

[Tuidjy]

PvK, the real issue is whether Ulm needs boosting or not. I may agree with you
that Ulm does not need even better armour, or that the random elemental makes
Iron Faith more or less pointless. The reason I am pushing for changes is that
I believe that Ulm, as it is, is simply horribly underpowered. This is why I
am playing the three games against CUnknown - if Ulm cannot win one on one,
on a small map where the enemy capital is known, under conditions tailored to
favor Ulm, there is something wrong with the race.

To answer your question - what gets developped in 5-10 turns that removes
Ulm's advantages in troops? My Caelum will have Alteration II at the end of
turn 2, Construstion II when the tenth water gem rolls in, and will go for
Evocation... That's a buffed pretender, clamming and hastened lightning
casters. Now, I agree that Caelum is an exception, but Pythium, C'tis,
and Arco are not far behind.

By the way, the first game - Ulm vs Pythium - in on. Yes, I am fielding a
Ghost King - my standard MP pretender.

And finally, while the heaviest crossbows indeed use winches or levers to
makes reloading easier, these devices do not make strength irrelevant, but
rather amplify it. Thus, a stronger person will have an easier time. I
imagine arbalests simply as crossbows that are a bit bigger and stiffer -
built to a scale suited for the stronger Ulmians.