"Got Blood?" -- BF Ulm AAR (Newbie)

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
I'd really love to see more of this, I dabbled in Black Forest for a while, because of the rangers. Accuracy AND axes in melee, wow! But I got trounced... repeatedly... by the AI.

The Rangers are nice, but they're not much different from the Arbalests of base Ulm. Well, they fire more rapidly, and are more accurate, but they're much worse in melee combat (due to lack of armor).

Anyways, I wonder why you use Infants of Ulm instead of Zweihanders. Although rangers can fend for themselves in a melee, I'm sure Zweihanders' improved armor, and therefor tanking ability, makes them superior to Infantry of Ulm combined with the fact that your recruitable mortal commanders, the Commanders of Ulm (how imaginative) can only take 25 men apiece instead of the standard 50.

Actually, I don't use the Zweihanders because 1) they're more resource-intensive than the infantry (IIRC), and 2) They don't have shields. Especially when you consider I'm firing crossbow bolts into melee after a while, you want shields on your tanks. The difference in survivability between Morningstar Infantry and Zweihanders is quite large. Point-by-point:

1) Zweihanders don't have shields, which means they're going to be taking damage from my own Rangers.
2) Zweihanders are easily hit, and while they better armor, defense is rather important.
3) Zweihanders actually have greater encumbrance, and therefore their endurance is less.
4) I can buy a Morningstar Infantry, a Ranger, and a mage for the same resource cost as a Zweihander. This is my limiting factor at present.
5) I seem to recall from SaberCherry's combat simulator that the Morningstar Infantry was generally better than 2-handed wpn. Infantry.

I have quite a few reasons why I'm using Morningstar Infantry. Points 1) and 4) I think are the most important.

Aside from that, I also wonder how/when you're going to get a slave trade going. I'm a newbie to blood magic, and have only dabbled in it in one game with Diabolical Faith. What demons do you plan to summon, if you're not only using it to make Counts. How will you deal with only having your pretender to summon them?

Well, with a little help, the Counts can summon each other. Irma can also summon the Ice Devils. I can probably also get her Blood high enough (through Vessel/Armor/Thorn/Artifact Book) to summon the Heliophagi. Time will tell with this.

I might've missed it from another post, but are you playing the AI or in Multiplayer?

I'm playing SP (that is, against the AI). If this wasn't totally after the action, I'd be kinda stupid to do it.

Another small note. Everything up until turn 7 was done under 2.08. That means, before the missile fire rules were changed. If anything, this should make the Rangers more deadly.

Hope this helps.

[Scott Hebert]

Turn 6

Marignon names the Cardinal his Prophet. Would that make him Holy 6? Gotta keep him away from my Vampires...

I was able to hire Dante's Stingers, and I broke down the walls of the Mausoleum, so I order Dante, Karl, and Rexor to storm it. I don't see any provinces of C'tis's around here, so I'm hoping that if I win, C'tis will be eliminated.

Nan Bagor transfers his troops to Karl, and summons up wolves.

Zierod and his troops sneak to C'tis. (Another bonus of the Wolfherds... strategic move of 2, and can sneak with Rangers and Wolves.)

Ulrich and his Morningstar Infantry move to Zimmria.

Eata, my Astral/Blood Fortuneteller, moves to Fenatice to prepare for Bloodhunting.

Meanwhile, most of the rest of my coven switches over to forging items for Irma, since Construction 2 has been reached. Evita forges a Rawhide Shield, Irma forges herself a Horror Helm, and Coma forges a Pendant of Luck.

I note that the Farstrikers are up for hire. I've always considered them among the best mercenaries, and so I spend 165g in an attempt to hire them. This leaves me with 62g, which I use to buy another Wolfherd, and a single Ranger.

Taxes are moved to 70% in Zimmria and 80% in C'tis.

Status:

Treasury 0
Income 331 (+47)
Upkeep 64 (+7)
Gems: 5A1S13D1N
Research: 7/39, Conjuration 1

Turn 7, the Serpent's Fall, up next.

[Scott Hebert]

Turn 7

"Your report, Castellan?"

Ulrich bowed before his Queen. "My Lady, fate has smiled upon us. The evil serpents of C'tis have been overthrown, and the secrets their Archmage leader had secreted in his Mausoleum are now ours."

"Most excellent. I now have a home away from home... although it does strike me..." Irma quirked her lips in what was almost a smile.

"Yes, Your Majesty? Do you need anything?"

Irma shook her head slightly. "A small lesson in statecraft, Baron Ulrich. As you recall, the Illuminated Society recently paid me a call, asking for a place they could carry out their plots and schemes. Naturally, I could not give them the Keep, but..."

Ulrich smiled as well. "Now you have another Fortification that they can occupy. They gain access to the Archmage's research..."

"And I gain access to perhaps the best cabal in the world." She rose from her throne. "Baron, send word to the Order and tell them they may have use of the Mausoleum. Eata should be able to carry my words to them. Now, if there is nothing else..." His small cough interrupted her. "Yes? Is there something else?"

"We have sighted the Spiders of Machaka on our northwest frontier, Great Lady."

"Ah... hopefully a worthier adversary than the snakes. Has my coven finished my accouterments yet?"

"They have, My Lady."

"Then I must give Machaka a proper welcome, now mustn't I?"

--

At the battle in C'tis, they had their Archmage (AAAADDDD and something else), a Shaman, and their Serpent Dancers. What they were missing was a Priest to bless them. Had they had one, the assault may have gone differently. In any event, not much to talk about there. About the scariest thing (NPI) was the Archmage's Terror spells.

But they died, and I lost few units.

I was able to purchase the Farstrikers.

Arcoscephale made a Strategos their Prophet. At least I know they're playing the base theme.

Machaka is 2 provinces away from Ulm to the NE. To be more specific, there are 2 provinces that are adjacent both to Ulm and their territory that I can see.

My battle plan for the moment is to try to swallow up as much territory between me and them as a buffer.

One attack squad, made up of Dante's Stingers, Arnaud's Farstrikers, and Ulrich's Morningstars, is attacking Zanthrast, a province cradled by C'tis, Zimmria, and Fenatice.

The second squad, made up of Karl's forces, attacks Akesta, above Zanthrast.

The third squad, Irma by herself, is attacking Cun Aral, the province between Machaka and Ulm that I have positive dominion in. She has the equipment I forged for her Last turn, with orders of (Quickness)/(Stoneskin)/(Earth Might)/Attack Rear. I am slightly concerned that she is going after Barbarians, who if they can get through the Ethereal/Luck combo, can do some serious damage.

My wolfherds (2 in C'tis and 1 in Ulm) all Summon Wolves.

Ulga, Evita, and Coma in Ulm all Research.

Eata moves to C'tis to Research/protect from bad events.

Taxes in Zimmria and C'tis are increased to 80% and 90% respectively.

In Ulm, a Fortuneteller and 4 Rangers are recruited.
In C'tis, a Member of the Second Tier is recruited.

Status:

Treasury 0
Income 386 (+56)
Upkeep 68 (+4)
Gems: 5A/2S/19D/4N
Gem Income: +1S/+6D/+3N (C'tis, booyah)
Research: 21 points, researching Enchantment 1

... and I've caught up to where I was a couple of months ago. (Don't worry. I haven't been playing.) From now on, it's 2.12 (albeit with a VQ that is illegal under 2.12).

This thread has been added to the AAR Thread. Good job Scott.

[Scott Hebert]

Thanks, Zen. From now on, I hope to do (and report) a turn a day until the game is over.

[HotNifeThruButr]

More questions about playing Black Forest

Why buy Farstrikers? If I remember right\ it's a captain and 30 shortbowmen with, I believe ringmail cuirasses for around 130 gold. Shortbows aren't amazing, and Machaka has plenty of heavy armor to make them go crying for their respective mamas (who I'm sure are all saints ).

Do you pay upkeep for wolves? If so, how much?

If I read the roleplay part of the report right, you intend to make researchers in the mausoleum as well as your capital.

Also, from the roleplay part, it looks like you mean that Irma and Ulrich are sitting on their fat asses in Ulm, eating chocolate and the occasional child/virgin. Is it for some kind of master plan?

How did/will you deal with Machaka? If I were you, I would've kept the Farstrikers around to deal with Warriors, Militia, Spider Riders, and their own Archers. I would also employ masses of Rangers gunning for the closest enemy in case they have Knights or Hunters. For hoplites, I would also have a small diVersionary force of Infantry of Ulm to fend off Warriors and Militia until they route, if they're present along with hoplites. Once the hoplites are at the front, my rangers can cut them down with relatively close range fire. How will you fight Machaka archers after the Strikers have died or left, though? That I want to know.

Are you compromising your fighting forces by creating a research team?

[Sheap]

Farstrikers are longbowmen, not shortbowmen, and I think they might have an extra point of precision or two. In any case they are a lot better than your average independent archers.

[Boron]

nice aar
it has awakened my interest for BF ulm
but a question which frightens me a bit to play them myself :
the inland map with 154 provinces is quite big already though i love the orania map with 260 or so provinces with every player and highest research costs .
at which turn are you at the moment ?
but i guess you will need at least 100-150 turns or so . now my problem : you have to take death 1 :
although you only lose 0.2 % per turn you lose them . it is very slow but constant . if nothing else happens and i did calculate it right : at turn 100 your 30k capitol population should have dropped to 24557 . that is not so bad at all .
but with blood hunting you should get unrest and if you patrol lose your population quite quickly . and there are many bad events / spells which further decrease population .
so with positive growth it is not much but at least your population has the ability to slowly regrow.
so if you are some time (10-20) turns in a state where you can't expand and fight much i fear that you come in a blood shortage and you can't hope it will ever become better because of death 1 .
how far did you already play and how long do you think your game Lasts roughly estimated in turns ? plz tell me if you had any blood hunting problems then and how do you plan to bloodhunt ? masshunt in a few provinces with opressing unrest through partrols or perhaps 1 blood hunter in almost every province and taxes reduced to 50-80% to keep unrest low without patrolling ?
cause in my first big own game as abysia i took growth 3 and are at turn 80 but i don't know really why now my unrest is increasing quickly and my 12 provinces where i bloodhunt get slowly depopulated and my blood income drops slowly

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by HotNifeThruButr:
Why buy Farstrikers? If I remember right\ it's a captain and 30 shortbowmen with, I believe ringmail cuirasses for around 130 gold. Shortbows aren't amazing, and Machaka has plenty of heavy armor to make them go crying for their respective mamas (who I'm sure are all saints ).

First, as Sheap said, these are longbowmen, which are far better than shortbowmen. Second, while Machaka has a lot of heavy armor, their archers are VERY vulnerable to counter battery fire. As you point out later, my Rangers will do quite well against Machakan armor, and so I'm going to want archers to counter the Machakan archers. Besides, I find the Farstrikers the best investment of any merc.

Do you pay upkeep for wolves? If so, how much?

According to my brother Wyatt, Wolves are free. If they aren't, then they are probably like slaves, which have a gold cost of 1, for an upkeep of 1/15.

If I read the roleplay part of the report right, you intend to make researchers in the mausoleum as well as your capital.

Slight correction. My capital will be making my Fortunetellers and my Wolfherds (which depends on money), while the Mausoleum will be making Members of the Second Tier for Bloodhunting.

Also, from the roleplay part, it looks like you mean that Irma and Ulrich are sitting on their fat asses in Ulm, eating chocolate and the occasional child/virgin. Is it for some kind of master plan?

The story is just that: a story. While it does give direction to the game, it's not the main part. If you notice in my troop movements, Ulrich is leading troops in battle, while Irma is starting to take provinces.

How did/will you deal with Machaka?

As I've said, I am now 'in present time', as it were, and I plan to do one turn a day. I plan to host to turn 8 and have a write-up in the next 4 hours.

If I were you, I would've kept the Farstrikers around to deal with Warriors, Militia, Spider Riders, and their own Archers.

See above.

I would also employ masses of Rangers gunning for the closest enemy in case they have Knights or Hunters.

If I want to deal with them, I would set to 'fire cavalry' or 'large monsters', just so they don't get confused. Probably large monsters, since after the riders die, I don't know if they're classified as 'cavalry' anymore.

For hoplites, I would also have a small diVersionary force of Infantry of Ulm to fend off Warriors and Militia until they route, if they're present along with hoplites.

I have a hard time seeing Ulmish infantry as 'diVersionary'. I plan to have a center line/block of Ulmish infantry whose job is to hold that line until my Rangers/other archers defeat the enemy.

Once the hoplites are at the front, my rangers can cut them down with relatively close range fire. How will you fight Machaka archers after the Strikers have died or left, though? That I want to know.

I highly doubt that the Farstrikers will ever die or leave my service. However, in that event, Wolves are my best fast flankers, and especially against archers with no armor, will really rip them up.

Are you compromising your fighting forces by creating a research team?

I don't feel I am. More than researchers right now, I need Blood hunters to get my first Blood Count. I'll be switching over to Construction this turn to get to 4 ASAP for SDRs, and the Death/Blood path-enhancing items.

Early-game, mercs are your way of enhancing your forces while maintaining decent mage production.

Thanks for the questions, though. It helps to clarify everything and enhances the AAR.

[Scott Hebert]

Originally posted by Boron:
nice aar
it has awakened my interest for BF ulm

Thanks!

but a question which frightens me a bit to play them myself :
the inland map with 154 provinces is quite big already though i love the orania map with 260 or so provinces with every player and highest research costs .
at which turn are you at the moment ?

I'm about to do turn 8, as soon as people stop posting in this thread! (this is a joke)

but i guess you will need at least 100-150 turns or so . now my problem : you have to take death 1 :
although you only lose 0.2 % per turn you lose them . it is very slow but constant . if nothing else happens and i did calculate it right : at turn 100 your 30k capitol population should have dropped to 24557 . that is not so bad at all .
but with blood hunting you should get unrest and if you patrol lose your population quite quickly . and there are many bad events / spells which further decrease population .

Yes, the mandatory Death-1 hurts BF Ulm, since it is a Blood nation. I find it to be the main reason I don't play them more. I'll cover more below, but I'd like to point out that the Fortunetellers can negate bad events, and if you put them in your high-income provinces, it helps.

so with positive growth it is not much but at least your population has the ability to slowly regrow.
so if you are some time (10-20) turns in a state where you can't expand and fight much i fear that you come in a blood shortage and you can't hope it will ever become better because of death 1 .

I don't think that will happen, honestly. While I wouldn't call myself a 'good player', I don't think that, properly and cautiously played, the computer is going to give me that much of a problem. Yes, C'tis was just in the wrong place at the wrong time (with the wrong Fort, and the wrong Pretender). Part of the reason I took the VQ was to break that kind of stalemate.

how far did you already play and how long do you think your game Lasts roughly estimated in turns ? plz tell me if you had any blood hunting problems then

I expect the game to run as long as it takes for me to be the obvious and clear winner. How that is defined is different for every person, I would expect.

and how do you plan to bloodhunt ? masshunt in a few provinces with opressing unrest through partrols or perhaps 1 blood hunter in almost every province and taxes reduced to 50-80% to keep unrest low without patrolling ?

Generally, I follow one of two strategies when I'm bloodhunting. The first is to put 2 Bloodhunters in a province that's as close to 5K as possible, turn the taxes down to 0, and let them hunt. If they are Blood-2 mages (whether innate or 1 with a SDR), they generally don't cause any unrest to accumulate. The second is to use Norfleet's numbers to stifle unrest by patrolling (he has 65 slaves stops the unrest from two Blood-2 mages). Now, for BF Ulm, you'd use the Thralls auto-generated by the Blood Counts instead of Slaves, but the theory is sound. I don't know if this way is feasible with the Death scale, though.

At this point, I'm looking at doing it the first way until I get my first Blood Count, and then judge from then on.

Hope this helps. Another hope: I get the Blood Marshal or the Member of the Third Tier soon.