So far what nations look strong... and weak? - Page 4

licker · #31 November 18th, 2003, 08:10 PM

A problem with the checkerboard approach though is supply. Without the connections to your depots and the increased consumption of the fliers it will start to hamper you once your armies begin to get sizeable. (and it doesn't take many fliers for that to happen...)

Its still a good approach though, especially when your opponent really isn't prepared for it. You can also use it to wreck your opponents supply lines...

apoger · #32 November 18th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Just to show how fluid things are right now...

I'm upgrading Ermor [Soul Gate] and Ermor [Broken Empire] to "potent". BE due to the availability of nether dart mages. SG due to a better appreciation of the summons. I like both these themes much more than the Ashen Empire theme.

I still don't like C'tis [Misama]. The extra nature/water doesn't make up for the loss of death specialty IMHO. Furthermore, the incompatibility with indy mages/troops and most pretenders is brutal. On the other hand, if it makes you happy... don't let me stop you from having fun.

#33 November 18th, 2003, 08:53 PM

I have to disagree on Pangea Carrion Woods. Reanimiation includes Manikins, Carrion Beasts (which include the Carrion Elephants which can tear through an army).

They have a fast start with their Mino's and War Minos, and of course still have their stealth in the satyr's and Harpies.

Even the Panic apostates being overpriced (320 Gold! 3 Nature, 2 Death) you could field a decent army along with your Carrion Lord(s) Ladies very quickly. The only real downside I can see is their magic resistance; as you are forced to take at least a +1 Magic scale.

I would have to say I've very impressed. GROWTH 3 all the way BABY.

PvK · #34 November 18th, 2003, 09:07 PM

I had no problems using Ulm (Iron Faith) up to turn 40. They certainly had no problem stomping Mictlan, often because Mictlan armies would rout when their slaves started dying. (An idea for an advantage to add to slaves would be to make them not cause morale checks when they die. At least, the AI might be programmed to put them in their own squads to help, although I think it may already be doing that.) I suppose Mictlan probably does much better under human control, and maybe if it does more blood summons.

Meanwhile, as I mentioned elsewhere, my Arco hasn't been doing well against AI Marignon's crossbows, HvInf and HvCav.

These may have a lot to do with my own experience level and play style, though.

Iron Faith Black Priests do get a random magic pick, though, and since they're holy units, they're cheaper than say an Arco Astrologer. The forge bonus can be used to cheaply make items which increase magic power, eventually.

PvK

johan osterman · #35 November 18th, 2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
I have to disagree on Pangea Carrion Woods. Reanimiation includes Manikins, Carrion Beasts (which include the Carrion Elephants which can tear through an army).

They have a fast start with their Mino's and War Minos, and of course still have their stealth in the satyr's and Harpies.

Even the Panic apostates being overpriced (320 Gold! 3 Nature, 2 Death) you could field a decent army along with your Carrion Lord(s) Ladies very quickly. The only real downside I can see is their magic resistance; as you are forced to take at least a +1 Magic scale.

I would have to say I've very impressed. GROWTH 3 all the way BABY.

Perhaps you haven't noticed yet, but Carrion Woods has a destructive dominion similar to Ashen Empire or Soulgate themes for Ermor, not quite as destructive but in the long run your core provinces will be utterly depopulated.

[ November 18, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: johan osterman ]

#36 November 18th, 2003, 09:35 PM

I'm sorry Johan. I was being sarcastic. Ah, so much is lost on the internet.

I meant the requirement for the Carrion to have at least Growth 1 for the theme, so you don't get too many points

.

Part of the reason that the Carrion Woods theme is strong is because it is like Ermor; you can just pillage and tax to death everyone in your lands and let the Carrion Lords mop up

while you make scads of Minos, Harpies and Pans.

Joonie73 · #37 November 18th, 2003, 09:57 PM

Poger,

Also what is the case for Pythium being so strong? They don't even have powerful blessable units (unless you go Serpent)!

#38 November 18th, 2003, 10:18 PM

Pythium are the standard.

Low cost Communion slaves, good research, good massive troop armies. Hydra's can be devistating, Theurgs and Arch Theurgs can become tremendously powerful.

Anything with a base mage in the race with Astral 3 can use gateway; which is incredibly strong for quick reinforcement between labs.

apoger · #39 November 19th, 2003, 02:48 AM

>Also what is the case for Pythium being so strong? They don't even have powerful blessable units (unless you go Serpent)!

* Outstanding Infantry
* Gladiators (in multiplayer these guys are very potent defensively)
* Communicants!
* Quickness, Communion, Aim, *Orb Lightning*
* Soul Slay works when Orb Lightning fails
* Hydra are great even when not sacred.
* Arch Theurgs using Communion can lay down almost any battefield spell during the late game
* Arch Theurgs have great mobility from teleport and cloud trapeze [don't underestimate the power of surprise]
* Air and Astral magics simply have a wide scope of usefull spells

You have asked about both Arco and Pythium. I suspect that as a player that is new to the game, you have yet to grasp the awesome potency of Communion. Both Arco And Pythium have great infantry and the potential for outrageous battle magics from abusing Communion. It takes a while with the game before the whole communion thing becomes apparent.

johan osterman · #40 November 19th, 2003, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zen:
I'm sorry Johan. I was being sarcastic. Ah, so much is lost on the internet.

I meant the requirement for the Carrion to have at least Growth 1 for the theme, so you don't get too many points .

Part of the reason that the Carrion Woods theme is strong is because it is like Ermor; you can just pillage and tax to death everyone in your lands and let the Carrion Lords mop up while you make scads of Minos, Harpies and Pans.

My feeling is that Carrion wood is not particularily strong, if anything I would say it is a weak theme. While it has a strenghts it also have weaknesses. To mention a few:

You do not get as much free summons as Ashen empire, nor do you get the boosted gem income.

Your home province will eventually loose all its pop which will hit your resources severely and keep you from utilising the normal resource heavy troops recruitable in the capital, amongst them the sacred black centaurs. IIRC you cannot build harpies, you just start with one, and can recieve a Arcopythera. Your Panic Apostates are only 30 cheaper than ordinary Pani and have one random less, and do not recieve Meanads.

The effects of the dominion will eventually significantly reduce your income. As long as you manage to keep expanding the theme should do ok, but if you slow down the free summons you get will not offset the income loss.

You will also in multiplayer recieve the same reaction as Ermor, making you a likely target for alliances.