c'tis themes - Page 4

licker · #31 November 7th, 2003, 09:35 PM

Can you enlighten me please

What is the advantage of earth magic with forts?

I probably should know, but I don't

apoger · #32 November 7th, 2003, 09:52 PM

Just my opinions but;

The elite warriors are the bread and butter for C'tis, just like Dom I. If not using them then use the LI. All the rest of C'tissian troops are second rate. The only other troop I'd make is the Swamp Guard, and only under limited circumstances.

Even with the better defenses of some of the forts, I'd sooner chew off my left leg than take a fort other than the fortified city or wizards tower. Even with lower admin effects, the extra gold is clutch. Furthermore fort defense is nonsense. What does extra fort defense buy you? Some smug emotional feeling that you are doing some extra damage to someone as they remove you from the game? Pointless. Do not plan around having your forts under siege. That is planning towards your own defeat. Take a better admin fort, so you have more gold, so you can make more troops, so you win in the field, so you never have to defend your own forts. Plan for victory. If you plan for defeat you are going to get what you planned for.

[ November 07, 2003, 19:53: Message edited by: apoger ]

Pocus · #33 November 7th, 2003, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:
Originally posted by Pocus:
[qb]I think I still prefer the hill fortress (...)

To be fair I still haven't seen a hill fortress "in action", so you're a better judge than me on this.

I posted a thread with the stats of forts when assaulted, also, you can find a xls file on Sunray site.

Pocus · #34 November 7th, 2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by licker:
Can you enlighten me please

What is the advantage of earth magic with forts?

I probably should know, but I don't

no, thats just that Nagot already browsed all new spells

There is a spell which strengthen your walls in earth magic.

licker · #35 November 7th, 2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
Just my opinions but;

The elite warriors are the bread and butter for C'tis, just like Dom I. If not using them then use the LI. All the rest of C'tissian troops are second rate. The only other troop I'd make is the Swamp Guard, and only under limited circumstances.

So you'd just drown your enemies in fragile units that are cheap? The advantage outside of cheapness that these guys have over other C'tis units is speed, and they arn't *that* much faster.

-edit--- morale is 2 higher than SG...

And why not use poison slingers? They seem to be pretty useful to me, and in smallish numbers at that.

I do agree with you about forts for the most part though. But in the case of miasma a few well placed forts may be enough of a deterent to keep you from being attacked in the first place. If the enemy has to keep their seige armies in there for a while they are going to be useless once they are done from all the disease they will acculmulate. So its a preventative measure (potentially).

[ November 07, 2003, 20:08: Message edited by: licker ]

licker · #36 November 7th, 2003, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:
Originally posted by licker:
Can you enlighten me please

What is the advantage of earth magic with forts?

I probably should know, but I don't

no, thats just that Nagot already browsed all new spells
There is a spell which strengthen your walls in earth magic.

Ahh, ok I knew about that spell, just thought he was talking about something else... some intrinsic bonus for forts from earth magic...

Pocus · #37 November 7th, 2003, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apoger:
Just my opinions but;

The elite warriors are the bread and butter for C'tis, just like Dom I. If not using them then use the LI. All the rest of C'tissian troops are second rate. The only other troop I'd make is the Swamp Guard, and only under limited circumstances.

I know that, but I have RP problems (yes even in pbem I dont like to build them) with them, as I dont see Ctis having only savage lizards as soldiers. I prefer to say myself that we are a proud bunch of civilized lizardmen

Though, they take big losses, and as they cost much, I suspect this will be more problematic with the lower gold settings of dom2.

Quote:

Even with the better defenses of some of the forts, I'd sooner chew off my left leg than take a fort other than the fortified city or wizards tower. Even with lower admin effects, the extra gold is clutch. Furthermore fort defense is nonsense. What does extra fort defense buy you? Some smug emotional feeling that you are doing some extra damage to someone as they remove you from the game? Pointless. Do not plan around having your forts under siege. That is planning towards your own defeat. Take a better admin fort, so you have more gold, so you can make more troops, so you win in the field, so you never have to defend your own forts. Plan for victory. If you plan for defeat you are going to get what you planned for.

Generally I think the same, but having too much this frame of mind is not perfect either. Or otherwise great commanders would not have reserve, and would commit all their troops at once, following your principle.
I think there is still room for defence in race design. This can even spare you a war, thus netting you a big gain. Thats depend really of the penalties that you incur when taking some defensive dispositions. If you only get a reduction of 5% of your income, but strengthen by a very big factor the defence of your empire, then its viable, as the chance it act as a deterrent is real.
Extreme positions are not always the best, but your milleage may vary.

Pocus · #38 November 7th, 2003, 10:12 PM

Licker, the lizard warriors does far more damage too (trident and bite). There is a 9 prot Version, but still it takes some losses.

licker · #39 November 7th, 2003, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pocus:
Licker, the lizard warriors does far more damage too (trident and bite). There is a 9 prot Version, but still it takes some losses.

Ok, more damage dealt from the trident (and it's length 4 as well), they have slightly better morale. Though I wonder where the break point is for higher morale vs. higher loses due to more casualties. They are resource cheap, but not gold cheap compared to SGs and other infantry. I should look at them more though, I was discounting them due to their fragile nature and cost. How do you deal with archers then? Seemingly these guys (even the 9proc Version) are going to take a beating before they hit their target.

Keir Maxwell · #40 November 7th, 2003, 10:51 PM

A few points.

Planning for victory does not exclude realising the value of fortresses near the border with someone you don't wish to fight. Your opponnent looks at and thinks - "I'll take forever to take that" - and it influences their decision making. I'm not endorsing any specific low admin stronghold but saying that a part of the role of building castles is to secure the area. With the wide open multi-player borders of some maps castles are how we put down terrain and their defendability does matter. I'm aggressive but I don't invade all my neighbours at once.

Lizard Warriors ability to deal damage is brutal. As long as you have got a heat scale they can kill an early game super combatent - they've done it to my Niefelheim Earth 9 nature 9 blessed Niefel giant.

Didn't Alex mention he had success using big armies of LI javelin backed by a Lizard King and a couple of sacred serpents.

Cheers

Keir