Crossbows vs. Longbows

[Eximius Sus]

Originally Posted by rdonj

Arrowheads with spinning drillbits?

That's silly. It's clearly known that the spiral mounting of fletchings was develop to increase the spinning penetration of arrows. Archimedes began his invention of the screw pump with a helical arrow head designed to spin it's way through bronze breastplates.

[Ragnarok-X]

I prefer longbows all the way.

[Lizardo]

A crossbow bolt is no more 'piercing' than an arrow. In fact the arrow typically has more mass and because of its length compared to cross section and fetching more flight stability.

The tip of the projectile is more important for the penetration of armor. The bows, and arrows, of Japanese Samurai were measurably superior to the English Longbow but the English arrows could penetrate both chain mail and plate armor. The Japanese arrow typically fails to penetrate chain (because Japanese knights never used it).

Composite re-curve short-bows are also very effective.

Penetration characteristics of a crossbow bolt are no different. It is simply easier to build crossbows and train crossbowmen.

Sling bullets just do not penetrate armor. They are blunt impact. You need gun powder to make a bullet effective. Slingers should though be able to carry 50 bullets and crossbow men 20 bolts.

Arquebus's were not so terribly inaccurate as to be useless, they killed or maimed what they hit and they reloaded as fast or faster than a crossbow with no strength needed. Breach loading versions were also available, just not widely so.

The use of crossbows and bows should be fatiguing, modified by strength.

What's also unsettling about shooting is the pattern of impact which tends to be all over the target area. Generally directed kinetic ammunition shouldn't stray too far to the left or right.

Missile weapons generally only penetrate at most 4". This means that shields should be very effective against most arrows/bolts and almost impossible for sling bullets.

An Arquebus will simply ignore shield and armor at effective range.

In this regard, distance should affect both accuracy and potential damage.

Bows could also be customized for the character's strength.

[Gregstrom]

Can some friendly admin re-title this "The thread that WILL NOT DIE", please?

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Can some friendly admin re-title this "The thread that WILL NOT DIE", please?

This is a serious discussion, and the outcome will affect how crossbow/longbow based wargames are developed all over the world. FFS show some respect for the effort and time people put into this very important subject.

Speaking of that, how about we start a mac vs PC thread?

[Gregstrom]

Sorry Fantomen, I hadn't realised how C3R34L!!!!11111!!11!1 the discussion was.

[Fantomen]

Thanks for your understanding Greg.

@Lizardo: In order to relate the issue to dom3, assuming a bone/cherrywood ethiopian recurved composite shortbow, how would a vine arrow affect velocity and penetration. That spell always struck me as slightly out of touch with proper aerodynamics.

[Eximius Sus]

That's just BS fantomen. You are confusing the poor noob. It's all about the input energy.

[HoneyBadger]

Crossbows were frowned upon as not being the weapon of a Christian gentleman (meaning that it was perfectly OK to skewer a Muslim with one, but quite unchivalrous and rude to knock a proper knight off his noble steed with a crossbow bolt, especially since peasants could do so behind a bush. Peasants, after all, were made for sucking.)

I suspect that infamy had something to do with the rise of gunpowder, which fell under the very popular "knocks over castles" clause.

It's Rule of Cool, for lack of a better term.

Longbows remained quite popular, even after the introduction of gunpowder. Their decline had quite a bit to do with the fact that all the yew trees that made the best bows, had already been harvested. Mature yew trees became remarkably difficult to locate, in the late Middle Ages.

Slings, on the other hand, are insidiously difficult to aim, and fairly dangerous to friendlies, in close quarters. While powerful, they just weren't very good weapons for using in ranks.

[Gregstrom]

Oh dear.